new health system ect...

[Agar]

Or as stated in some episode of "Blackadder III":

"Nothing stops a homicidal maniac with a claymore"

I love that show, but this, unfortunatly, is cantr. 2-3 swings and that guy is going to be tuckered out.

[myst]

So maybe base damage should be increased on many weapons. It sucks for new players, but hey - an unarmed man is pretty dead if someone comes at him with a sword. That paves the way for new and exciting armours etc, which we know will come eventually, and means that a WELL ARMED madman can still run a riot but getting hold of such weapons will be very difficult. I think 3 damage for a fist is just silly anyway, that means it takes 34 hits to kill someone - disregarding healing!

Oh yeah - do different weapons tire you out differently? They should. Hitting people with a big axe should hurt as much as a sword but its waaay more tiring to do. Crossbows are the least tiring (point, click...)

[Revanael]

You think crossbows are easy? Try pulling the string back on one to load it. VERY hard work. Most people couldn't manage it.

I hope the announcement on the main page in game will end this topic here.

[colonel]

*Laughs* Yeah Rev, you would not want to be around when I tried that.

[Revanael]

And it shouldn't take a whole town to take out one maniac, that's just rediculous.

Actually... It should, if that town does not have anybody skilled enough with weapons to take down the maniac. That's where specialised, trained guards come in. And that also leaves space for a LOT of fun with mercenaries...

[ephiroll]

If they're all unarmed yeah, but anyone with a weapon has probly used it enough to be decently efficent with it even if they only hunted. It should never take more then 5 to take out one other guy unless those 5 are unarmed and completly incompetant.

[wietse]

kroner wrote:
3. Information: This is probably the most important one. Game mechanics should not be a secret. That's ridiculous. Game mechanics are learned by the player, not by the character so releasing them has nothing to do with the CR. Right now cantr can't seem to make up its mind on whether it is a puzzle game for the players or a society simulator for the characters. I think it's clear what cantr is supposed to be, so there's definitely some change in order.

jos wrote:
What do you mean exactly by game mechanics? The precise effect of this kind of factors? They'll definitely stay secret and we just disagree if that is the case. If you're talking about the use of tools etc. - I'm not 100% sure anymore I support my own policy (for a while already) and I'm discussing this in the GAC currently.

This is also the thing that worries me most.
So far the game was relatively uncomplicated, and after a while i guess i have figured most things out on how they work, such as the influence of damage and such. With the game getting more complicated these things get harder to find out. And this IS a problem.

what kroner means i think is not that the precise effect of each factor should be known or the use of a tool and such. Those things should stay secret, as there is some fun in the discovery of workings of tools and indeed i see no need at all to know any exact percentage (that's why i think the bars are a good way of showing stats).
What is important is that the generale rules of the game and basic game mechanics should be known. Players for example should for example know in advance that:
working on projects means getting more tired
hunting animals or people is tiring
how much i can carry when i start a new character
that you recover tireness everyday
reaching 100% or damage (or tireness?)means you die
what the green button with eat does, when i find out i cant eat carrots
that you have skills, but more important what things does a skill influence:
collecting carrots
hunting prey/people in general
using a single weapon
improving my traveling/sailing speed
increasing my maximum damage
masking my abilitys to other players
increasing the rate in wich i recover tireness...
etc....

with the game getting more complicated and the game pace being quite slow it takes weeks to find these things out. Even more without any explanation i seriously think most people will not discover all the nice features programmed into the game. I personnaly dont play the game to discover how the game works. I want to know at least the general rules as to what i can do and what will have influence on something. That way i can choose what i want to do after thinking on what would be the best action for the characters i am playing.

if i have to find these things out in game, i guess i would have figured them out after trying everything with all my characters for a few months. And after that they can all die and i start playing some real ones, with the knowledge of how the game works as a player and play for real.

I like the game because of 3 reasons placed in the order of importance:
1) To see how societys and social interaction works and participate in it.
2) To collect stuff and build up a buissness or a cool car or other things
3) To discover thing such as new lands or foods or machines

None of these 3 reasons need a secretive game system. It only slows down the game and scares away new players.

[kroner]

yeah. information that players (as opposed to characters) figure out should be public. otherwise, as wietse said, it only disadvantages new players.

[The Industriallist]

And it shouldn't take a whole town to take out one maniac, that's just rediculous.

Actually... It should, if that town does not have anybody skilled enough with weapons to take down the maniac. That's where specialised, trained guards come in. And that also leaves space for a LOT of fun with mercenaries...

It should not take a whole town of casual longbowmen to take down one punching, shieldless lunatic in a single day (or hour, if they're actively played). But then, with the revelation of skills, probably it won't once the longbowmen have had a chance to build up some skill. The disorders right now come from the sudden skill discontinuity...which ought to be straightened out in time.

I would say that it ought to be made possible to do above the former damage (and possibly defense) caps with sufficient skill, though. Now that it isn't just a matter of grabbing the pointy thing and waving it at people.

[Pirog]

I think combat skills should reflect how often you hit instead of the damage value. (well, that should be effected too.)

If you shoot someone with a longbow you will hurt practically wherever the guy hits...but actually hitting someone with a longbow is pretty complicated.

[Psycho Pixie]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ephiroll wrote:

Buy dynamic I mean that in RL anything can happen, like above I'm talking about how limited interactions will now be, basically, the only way to deal with anything now is to talk. That isn't how society is, in RL the ways to deal with a situation are limited only by what a person is willing to do, their access to the things to do it with, and their ablility to carry through. What happened yesterday in KF is a perfect example of how limited things are now, the way that went down wasn't realistic at all because before things even really got started everyone was too tired to continue.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

easier to cut and paste that quote from page um... 7?

i can see the point you make here. With the inability to attack a person more then once a day, the charry cannot loose his or her temper, and attack someone. Bar brawls are non-existant in Cantr. And can anyone give me a society IRL that does not deal with bar brawls, random fits of anger, fighting, murder and downright aggression?
Now, with the loss of strength after hitting a few people, a charry cannot lash out at a town for not listening to him/her, cannot be a true thief, cannot be a true pirate, cannot be anything bad. Which a real society simulator woud have.... BAD GUYS ARE REQUIRED.

the only way to kill someone is to do it quietly, drag them into a well hidden and locked room, then kill them slowly, one day at a time. Thats not realistic either.

I do not play all bad guys, but I am sure it looks that way from what i state above. the same worries go for the town leaders, the town gaurdians and the town worker bee's.

***I am one of those who has been considering leaving, and Jos, I want you to know its not just these changes that give me a need to leave the game. I could actually deal with the changes after I got used to them. I am glad you are trying to improve the game. thats great. I may not like all the changes, but I would deal with them if I actually had the time to play.

pixie

[The Industriallist]

You actually can do piracy well, I think. Better, even. Rest up on the boat, so you make land with full strength. attack one or two people who are vulnerable, either from tiredness or from lack of shield, and undock, as usual. I don't actually know how much fatigue you recover...but you ought to be able to come back for another raid the next day at close to full power.

Remember, max damage is higher, not lower. Once you build up skill.

Point: can you practice by hitting yourself? Seems wierd, but I would expect it to work, based on technical simplicity assumptions.

[T.L.H.E.]

You actually can do piracy well, I think. Better, even. Rest up on the boat, so you make land with full strength. attack one or two people who are vulnerable, either from tiredness or from lack of shield, and undock, as usual. I don't actually know how much fatigue you recover...but you ought to be able to come back for another raid the next day at close to full power.

Remember, max damage is higher, not lower. Once you build up skill.

Point: can you practice by hitting yourself? Seems wierd, but I would expect it to work, based on technical simplicity assumptions.

I'm not sure how secretive we're suppose to be being, or how much I can say without it being a CR breach, but from what I've seen that seems very... very very optimistic (read, not happening without some way to artificially heal tiredness). Maybe though, my characters just aren't skilled enough at resting.

[Agar]

the only way to kill someone is to do it quietly, drag them into a well hidden and locked room, then kill them slowly, one day at a time. Thats not realistic either.

It's no one I've never mentioned, but I have a character with some good in game motives, and they are planning to do something very much like that. For the good of all, of course.

[onehempcat]

If you cant replenish your tiredness, and The game is way different then it was, then I only have one word.................................................................................................................................................HORRIBLE.

But I will get used to it, and have every character of mine, being one of the first to be able to heal. So nothing has really changed, just a little work needs to be done. And who knows the after affects, that will stay, may be cool. But for now, this stinks. Especially cause in a couple more days, I will have every character fully tired.