Skill to weapon making

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deadboy
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Skill to weapon making

Postby deadboy » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:23 pm

Now. This may or may not have been suggested before but if it has it has not been as it's own thread, only in a skills discussion, so here's my idea.

Well here's a little background first actually :P

Skills sort of work right now, but they are quite annoying really, in whole, in many areas. They work, but they seem a pointless addition to the game. So let's fix this :D.

Well... this is my ideal idea which may be implemented but if it ever was it would be slowly and in bits or it -would- muck up the game.

First off..... skills need to affect more things. Not just speed. For example, and I -know- this has been said before, but it should affect -how much- of something you can collect instead of how fast you can collect it. Now also ideally this would be incorperated into my idea for having resource collection limits, say 1k of a resource for a novice per year, with a whole town collection max of 10k but a expert can gather 4k a year, thereby stockpiling it for his or her own use.
Another idea, the one I want to see incorperated first, is an effect on weapons. I think that an expert should make a weapon that is -better-. By this I mean that crossbows for example should not all be the same. There should be beautifully made, averagely made, shoddily made etc weapons. Now, this would have an effect on two things, how fast it deteriorates, and a -small- effect on strength.
Now, this would not be the only thing that effects the weapon. There would also be graded iron. Again, from brilliant, which would be smelted by an expert, to shoddy. So, you could have a "Brilliantly made sabre that uses poor steel". This again would affect strength and deterioration rate by a little. This would give birth to a better weapons and steel trade, rather than people doing everything for themselves.
Now, for this to work there needs to be one thing. But let me say something first before you kill it, and I know you will want to.
You accepted skills over time, and the effects on Rp of some people were not too bad, and short-lived, and it -may- have made the game better.

So you can accept this too.

I suggest that all peoples skills be set back to a random of novice or awkward.
Yes I know this sounds bad for now, but wait.

Skills should advance quicker. It should take 15 years of pure weapon making to go from Novice to expert. That isn't so bad is it?
This would mean that in order to make good things people would -have- to master in one industy. Weapon makers buying steel from steel producers who buy there ores from mining companies. It would be brilliant! The world of cantr might have some kind of economy!
Of course all current weapons shoudl be assigned a random value, that solves that problem.

And why should this be limited to weapon making? I'm throwing this out there for discussion so that you bright minds can refine it, and perhaps come up with some more better uses for mastering at skills through -hard work- instead of through randomness.
This would mean that you could -truely- decided what you want to be instead of having it chosen by you by the computer when it assigns you your skills

Discuss....
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wichita
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Postby wichita » Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:24 pm

All of the collecting skils do allow you to collect more. If you collect faster, you collect more. My expert digger collects 2500 grams of limestone per day with a shovel rather than 2200, for instance. -- Implemented


As for tools, I would like to see an expert make a better piece of equipment. For tools this is right out, at the moment because a stone hammer = a hammer in terms of performance. To implement your idea will mean ProgD has to fix the way tools work.


Weapons and shields might be a bit easier to fix, storing the skill factor with the item.
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Postby tiddy ogg » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:46 am

I see the fundamental change this will make, but it is an interesting idea. There is another thread about marking "trademarks" on toools and weapons, and although in RL this "badge engineering" can improve the value of things, I'm sure Cantrians are more sensible. But if you knew Fred makes better swords than the average, a sword made by him* could be worth more.
*There is of course now the problem of counterfeiting... I see cans of worms.
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viktor
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Postby viktor » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:14 am

how about something made by an expert can be repaired to brand new, if you're only skillful i think is the next then the item can only be repaired up to new, and so on. hope that was understandable, and of course it would be reflected in the description *an expertly crafted claymore*, *an akwardly crafted claymore* so you would know good one that can last for years at a time between repairs from crap that will need to be repaired every few days.
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SCUBA
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Postby SCUBA » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:33 am

viktor wrote:how about something made by an expert can be repaired to brand new, if you're only skillful i think is the next then the item can only be repaired up to new, and so on. hope that was understandable, and of course it would be reflected in the description *an expertly crafted claymore*, *an akwardly crafted claymore* so you would know good one that can last for years at a time between repairs from crap that will need to be repaired every few days.


This could be something! :-)
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Liljum
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Postby Liljum » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:11 am

viktor wrote:how about something made by an expert can be repaired to brand new, if you're only skillful i think is the next then the item can only be repaired up to new, and so on. hope that was understandable, and of course it would be reflected in the description *an expertly crafted claymore*, *an akwardly crafted claymore* so you would know good one that can last for years at a time between repairs from crap that will need to be repaired every few days.


Wow, this was exactly what popped up in my head when i was reading deadboy's suggestion.
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Postby Nosajimiki » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:58 am

Like the idea, for the most part but I'd rather not see skills only able to start at up to novice as there is such thing as being gifted at something. I say 10/20 = awkward, 7/20 = novice, 2/20 = efficient, 1/20 =skillful. Truth is, IRL most profesionals don't chose what they do so much as do what they are good at.
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Mykey
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Postby Mykey » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:02 am

You were not mistaken, all is true
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Postby Pie » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:41 am

I agree this rocks.

but I do seem to remember this coming up somewere els in another post *shrugs*
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Elros
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Postby Elros » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:21 pm

Nosajimiki wrote:Like the idea, for the most part but I'd rather not see skills only able to start at up to novice as there is such thing as being gifted at something. I say 10/20 = awkward, 7/20 = novice, 2/20 = efficient, 1/20 =skillful. Truth is, IRL most profesionals don't chose what they do so much as do what they are good at.


People are born with special talents, but they have to practice them every day and develop them to become "skillful" or "expert" at them. Most professional football players are born with the gift to play football well, but you will never find one that didn't work his butt off everyday to be good enough to be considered "professional". So with that said I would have to agree with Deadboy on the following statement:

You do need to be born with a random skill set that you are good at, BUT all skills should be random BETWEEN "awkward" and "novice". That way even though you do have some talent you still have to work on it to get it where you can be considered "skillful" ect...

That is realistic, and realism is what Cantr strives for.
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Mykey
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Postby Mykey » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:49 pm

Bravo, your phrase it is brilliant
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Chris Johnson
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Postby Chris Johnson » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:08 pm

They already advance fast enough - Funny enough deadboy's suggestion of 15 years of 100% usage of a skill (such as weapon making) from the bottom skill level to the top is more or less the current setting (acutally its just over 14 years)

For an average character thats only 7 years to get to the top level of expert.
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Mykey
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Postby Mykey » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:40 pm

It was specially registered at a forum to participate in discussion of this question.
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Chris Johnson
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Postby Chris Johnson » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:49 pm

Fighting ,hunting and physical strength are not covered by this progression These three skills are not specifically assigned to any standard project - all other skills do progress at these rates
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Postby Nakranoth » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:48 am

If you're going to claim that your charris aren't born with any well developed skills, I'm fine with that... but keep in mind, we don't spawn at 8... I've known people IRL that weren't even 15 and could do something as masterfuly as could be expected of anyone... Not to mention, at younger years, it's we're developing at a faster rate than that of an adult... so to say someone can't spawn as skillful makes no sense in the world.
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