Evolution

[kinvoya]

the more I learned about biology and how complex everything is, the more I realized that I don't think we came about by chance. There are patterns that repeat throughout the world and species.

There are patterns in the way that rocks rolling down a hillside distribute themselves and in the way mold grows in a dish. Is this evidence that some sentient force is guiding them? I have no trouble at all believing that the complexity of existance came to be without interference or deliberate design of any kind. There are laws of physics. They create pattern. Pattern upon/withing pattern over such a long period of time creates amazing phenomena.

I once crocheted an afghan (a small blanket). Afterward I estimated that there were 20,000 individual crochet stiches in it. So I took this long straight string and manipulated it into a semi-solid rectangle with structure and pattern. Each stich is essentially a small hole and all the holes are attached to each other so it could be looked at as a model of a lifeform consisting of 20,000 cells. Very much like a sponge - which some people consider to have been the first probable multicelled creature. (OK, so I just described Intelligent Design. Shut up! I am not disproving my own argument!!!) There were also a couple of incorrect stiches (mutation!). If my afghan could have reproduced it might have eventually evolved into a sentient blanket which could destroy the planet!

Anyway, my point was meant to be that the laws of physics are perfectly capable of creating complexity and pattern. And that's all we are. Really! With a little magic thrown in. This would be our spirits which I believe are eternal and somehow, for some reason, are having this very tiny human experience which could be analogous to riding an amusement park ride in the scope of eternity.

[The Industriallist]

I'm not saying that some life form created the univers, witch can't be proved, ime saying that Evolving has only has D.N.A closenes to it. JUST BECOUS YOU ARE CLOSE TO BEING A MONCKY, DOESENT MEAN YOU ARE A MONKY!

Nobody said that humans were monkeys. If, in your mind, any of your ancestors having been a monkey makes you a monkey, congratulations...you are a fish! After all, it's pretty certain that all vertibrate land life evolved from fish somehow or other (given that any form of evolution explains life on earth)

kinvoya, i remember hering IN THIS THREAD somone said that human remains have been found with dinosours.

Someone other than possibly you? I don't think so. Can you find it?

and also i am saying that the intier carbondating proses COULD be rong in a very long range of ways. and i wonder what the carbon dating system said 100 years ago. can anyone tell me?

I seriously doubt it...seeing as radium was discovered less than a decade before that, I doubt the process had been invented. If someone finds otherwise, please tell me.

Of course, since radiocarbon dating isn't remotely accurate down to hundreds of years, it should have reported pretty much the same as now.

[kinvoya]

kinvoya, i remember hering IN THIS THREAD somone said that human remains have been found with dinosours.

I don't think you did. It is impossible for human and dinosaur remains to be found together because dinousaurs became extinct 65 MILLION YEARS before humans existed. *sigh*

@Nick. Religious Studies = The study of world religions. If I were religious and if I were a Christian I might have studied Theology and then you might have considered me a religious nut (if you were close-minded and reactionary).

[Nick]

kinvoya, i remember hering IN THIS THREAD somone said that human remains have been found with dinosours.

I don't think you did. It is impossible for human and dinosaur remains to be found together because dinousaurs became extinct 65 MILLION YEARS before humans existed. *sigh*

@Nick. Religious Studies = The study of world religions. If I were religious and if I were a Christian I might have studied Theology and then you might have considered me a religious nut (if you were close-minded and reactionary).

Thinking that since I detest religion is close minded, is close minded in itself.

[BadMonkey]

Has no one noticed the fact that no one actually KNOWS the answer to this thread. It's all just theory anyway. I mean how much has Darwins theory been tweaked to reach what those who know the subject consider the evolution of species? It'll be changed many more times in my lifetime, assuming my idiocy doesn't end it pretty soon, which is likely.

No one has the answer. No one ever will have the answer. We can only do the best with the evidence we have. Which right now points to evolution. There is reason to argue against it, human progress depends on us arguing against it, but creationism is not the way to do that. What needs to be argued is another theory which has credible evidence.

So quit arguing. If you don't have a credible argument against evolution, stop arguing about it and go find one.

[Antichrist_Online]

My agument about the genesis story was not against religion, but rather against the literal interpretation of scripture. The story in genesis qualifies both theories equally, if you assume a limited observation of the world we occupy.

On science and religion - My religion doesn't interfere with my choice of academic study. I'm studing genetics with biochemistry at Newcastle Uni next year, yet I still have a firm belief that I will be at Odin's table when Ragnarok happens. Its as valid a belief as any christian who becomes a scientist. My best friend is taking theology and entering the clergy. He acepts evolution as the way 'God' does things. I believe my Gods evolved with the rest of the human mindset and will continue to do so.

I have an open mind to theories and hypotheses that have evidence behind them yet I'll stick with the one that is hasn't been discredited by other theories, rather strengthened, over theories based on literature and little physical evidence.

Why is it only american chirstianity has extreme creationists and all other religions and sects globally acept evolution as the way their God/Goddess/Deities operate? My hypothesis: Idiosycratic tax laws and isolationalism. Who controls the mindset gets the money, to be blunt.

[Cookie]

I'm studing genetics with biochemistry at Newcastle Uni next year,

You're one lucky man!

[Pie]

Actually, there suposedly has been some archeological evidence found of humans being around at the same time as at least some dinosaurs.

Heck, if you believe in the Loch Ness monster there still -are- dinosaurs around. (Or if you've ever seen an alligator...)

How'd we get on this topic anyway?

(And hey look, Pie can spell! Told you.)

HA! take that.

so, ive done a little resarch. and i have found out somthing extremly NOT surprising. A THERY IS SOMTHING THAT CAN BE PROVED IN A LAB, EVOLUTION CAN'T BE PROVEN IN A LAB. and yes, they have tried. that makes Evolving, well, it's not even a thery.Now, if that doesent say anything to you, then you are a one sided niny who is as stubborn as hell.

now don't give me some crap about reproving, con..whatever evidence, IF YOU CAN'T PROVE IT, IT ISN'T A THERY! How the world began isn't the question here, lets leve that out of mind, ADAPTATION is the only thing that has been proven in a lab. I ask you, has Evolving ever been provin in a lab? NO. So that means that Evolving is rong (i am saying what you say, but heck) compleatly rong. So, you make up the next thing, i am not saying that Creationism is right, I'm just saying that Evolving is RONG.

[Floyd]

I'm studing genetics with biochemistry at Newcastle Uni next year,

You're one lucky man!

Was that sarcasm, cos uh.. no he's not!

[Floyd]

IF YOU CAN'T PROVE IT, IT ISN'T A THERY!

Actually, if you cant prove something, then it isn't a fact... Theory does not rely on proof... i think...

[Pie]

if you can't give any proof of it that can be denide in a lab, it isn't a thery, or it is fals.

[Antichrist_Online]

so, ive done a little resarch. and i have found out somthing extremly NOT surprising. A THERY IS SOMTHING THAT CAN BE PROVED IN A LAB, EVOLUTION CAN'T BE PROVEN IN A LAB. and yes, they have tried. that makes Evolving, well, it's not even a thery.Now, if that doesent say anything to you, then you are a one sided niny who is as stubborn as hell.

now don't give me some crap about reproving, con..whatever evidence, IF YOU CAN'T PROVE IT, IT ISN'T A THERY! How the world began isn't the question here, lets leve that out of mind, ADAPTATION is the only thing that has been proven in a lab. I ask you, has Evolving ever been provin in a lab? NO. So that means that Evolving is rong (i am saying what you say, but heck) compleatly rong. So, you make up the next thing, i am not saying that Creationism is right, I'm just saying that Evolving is RONG.

Sorry but I almost swore at that. Where did you find that lot of rubbish. A theory cannot be proven right only wrong, if it is proven right its no longer a theory its a physical Law. Evolution of bacteria has been proven in a laboratory. According to your statement, because I can't take the entire unvierse and put it in a lab, then run it for a few billion years, Evolution is wrong and anything else I say about it is too?

A one-sided niny eh? For your information I'm a member of MENSA and can use a dictionary unlike you. If you look theory up in one you'll find the following:
the·o·ry
Pronunciation: 'thE-&-rE, 'thi(-&)r-E
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural -ries
1 : the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <the theory and practice of medicine>
2 : a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain natural phenomena <a theory of organic evolution>
3 : a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation

The 3: option is as a synonym for hypothesis and where the "Its only a theory" camp make their big mistake, by misinterpetation.

Personal insults against the people you are debating with is a really bad way to present a point. Also SPELL CHECK FOR GODS' SAKE.

[BadMonkey]

Nothing is fact. Just some things are accepted as so, else we wouldn't be able to do anything. Newtons 'Laws' of motion are infact a theory. A theory that works, and doesn't seem likely to be proved incorrect, but they're still a theory nonetheless. Nothing, not a single thing at all, can be proven.

We still go by philosophical ideas rather than scientific ones for determing that we actually exist at all.

Evolution will never be proven, nor will creationism. get over it. Just believe what you want and wait until the next theory comes along.

[Talapus]

Here is a few links and excerpts to clear things up.

Theory: A hypothesis that has withstood extensive testing by a variety of methods, and in which a higher degree of certainty may be placed. A theory is NEVER a fact, but instead is an attempt to explain one or more facts.
www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BI ... lossT.html

Law: A statement that summarizes the results observed in an experiment that is repeated many times by many different scientists. A scientific law is widely accepted as true or as a fact.
www.ucar.edu/educ_outreach/webweather/glossary.html

Science is a very fluid subject and is prone to change constantly, sometimes even proving itself wrong, and then having to change to match the new information base (see the existance of ether or aether, or the model of atoms for just a few examples). This means that it is possible that the theory of evolution is wrong in its whole, and almost certain that some aspects of it are wrong. However, it is currently the best substantiated (by a long ways) hypothesis that relates to the subject at hand, and as such, it recieves the belief that it deserves, at least until the current theory is disproven.

[kinvoya]

What Pie hears:

Whaa waaa waaaa theory waaaa waaa waaa evolution waaa waaa waaa waaa rong!