Who here has been contacted by the PD?

[kinvoya]

There is nothing wrong with having two characters in the same organization. This is not a breach of the Capital Rule. I had two characters and later three all at the same time part of the Quillanoi Government.

Them was the olden days. Here in the 3rd century I believe it is a no no as has been stated above by Oasis. I'm not sure who has the official word on this but I'd like to know because now I'm not sure.

[west]

I tend to agree...Everyone did it in the old days, including me, but I think now that the world is older and there's just more of it it should be avoided if possible.

[Surly]

It is not a breach of the Capital Rule per se... but then the rules enforced by the PD don't always corellate with the stated rules. Which need updating. As I have said before. And which was ignored. Like everything I say, not matter how relevant or useful.

Disregarded out of hand, or ignored.

Can you tell how frustrated I am with all of the staff departments right now?

Except MD. They're fine. And probably LD, as I have no contact with them. Every other department though...

[rklenseth]

I tend to agree...Everyone did it in the old days, including me, but I think now that the world is older and there's just more of it it should be avoided if possible.

Well you see it would have been out of character's character to not down what they have done. You see Easle Quathak was good friends with Russell and worked with Russell for many years on a newspaper. Then after Cromwell, Russell began the Quillanoi Citizens for Freedom and Safety and since Quathak shared many of the same ideals that Russell had, Quathak joined was later part of the Council of Supervision and later elected President. Awag Hera in his early years, tried to build and run a post office that ultimately failed being the only person who wanted to use it was Russell for both his newspaper and government purposes. Russell later created the Diplomatic Messenger of which he appointed Hera to the position when Russell was President. Richard Lenseth was promoted to Commander by Sheriff Kardos after much service in Reniov Mountains and was sent to Quillanoi where there was rumors that Cromwell had fled to (remember Cromwell has first tried to overthrow the Siom Government in Reniov Mountains before overthrowing the Quillanoi Government). Kardos also tasked him to created a Siom Sheriff Deputy Post and Offices in Quillanoi to protect Quillanoi but really to protect the interests of Siom Government from without their borders. There were plans for Siom to eventually assimilated Quillanoi but I think those leaders died off and their plans never passed out to the next generation. Thus the reason for a Deputy Office and Post to be in Quillanoi so that when Siom came to take over they would already have a force in the city and possibly loyalties already lined up. I only say this now because I don't think this is a plan being used by Siom today but if it is someone should PM me and I'll edit to keep this information out.

Thus you see all my characters joined due to their interests. I couldn't have Quathak not join Russell because Quathak was a good friend to Russell and believed in his political causes. I couldn't let Hera turn down Russell because all he wanted to do all his life was start a post office and this was a good way to get started; he would meet other leaders of other places etc... And Lenseth was promoted and sent to command a group of deputies which is a big promotion considering he was just a deputy at the time plus Lenseth was hoping to come across Cromwell because Lenseth was as previously mentioned posted and served in Reniov Mountains where Cromwell has tried his take over so Lenseth had friends that died because of Cromwell's take over.

[Oasis]

The game is much larger now. It is becoming more and more of a challenge to monitor, investigate, re-direct, and educate players who have problems keeping their characters from cooperating (or other numerous infractions).

The reason why you did not get an updated printed ruling is because it is not wanted to have this rule written in stone. It is something that is very frowned upon, and will most likely be questioned, and rectified. However, that doesn't mean someone might not have an unusual circumstance whereby it might be reasonable for a certain time period.

Each case the PD gets is treated individually, as all are unique. All characters are unique, and their circumstances have to be taken into account.

When we talk Organization, what is meant here is usually in the same town, with the same employer/leader. Every character is to have their own goals and endeavours in life. This isn't true if they have the same life. It also gives the competition an unfair disadvantage if players are doubling up in some companies/governments. It is also not okay to be doubling up with your friends characters. This can be harder to prove and to stop, but is just as unfair to others, and disruptive to the game.

[Surly]

The reason why you did not get an updated printed ruling is because it is not wanted to have this rule written in stone. It is something that is very frowned upon, and will most likely be questioned, and rectified.

I have to say that not allowing players to know the rule and then enforcing it is harsh. And wrong. How can you expect new players to comply when they don't know the rules? In fact, not writing them down as they might be questioned is nothing short of pathetic. It is beneficial to no-one except the PD, as only they know what the rule is.

I am disappointed that a department so important to the game (quite possibly the most important in terms of keeping the game running fairly) can take such a narrowminded view.

[The Sociologist]

The reason why you did not get an updated printed ruling is because it is not wanted to have this rule written in stone.

If the barons had said that of Magna Carta, or the founding fathers had said it of the Constitution, then Western Civilization would be a bit...um...buggered.

[wichita]

I've never really had a difficult time understanding or following the Capital Rule. I only got one contact from them, when two of my characters were working together to drag bodies from a building. In that case they were only working together because character 1 stepped out and asked publicly for assistance. Only one other guy responded, and I felt it would have been out of character for character 2 to not help someone who asked nicely. Other than that I've no encounters with PD.


I usually avoid trouble by not being such a jerk all the time....but that's just me I guess.

[Surly]

You follow the CR? How can you be sure if nobody defines it?

I had porblems following the CR at first, I admit. Or at least, what the PD said was the rule. Strictly speaking, I have done very little wrong... and I'm sure other new players would interprete the rule the same as me. Which is to say THE WAY IT IS WRITTEN! I have very little sympathy for the amount of work the PD has to do, if they refuse to help themselves in little ways like this.

[wichita]

It doesn't really need to be defined because it's not a very difficult concept to grasp.

1. Play your character from your character's point of view, considering only what your character has experienced or has knowledge of. Do not allow knowledge gained with another one of your characters or from OOC sources to affect the decisions made by the character.

2. Play it safe and avoid situations where it may appear you are violating the first point. Two characters working together in the same location, despite the fact that said interaction may be perfectly IC behavior for the characters in question, can look potentially suspicious.

That's all that really needs to be said. Why do we have to spell this out so legalistically? Is it really necessary? Do we have to find every friggin' loophole and push it to it's limits? Can't we just play the game and operate on common sense? Apparently not. I guess Common sense truly is the rarest commodity in the world!!! I must be like the richest guy in the world.


Please stop the bitching about this. It's incredibly annoying! It's a friggin' game, not law school!

[Nixit]

And... the PD (this is what I heard) doesn't punish harshly until it has asked the player in question about the specific matter, and if they are guilty, I believe the first time is only a warning or something.

[rklenseth]

Just to let you all know, I've never been contacted by the PD.

[cpkangaroo]

<SOAPBOX>
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that feels this way. The reason I brought this up is that as the CR is written on the registration page (which, until recently was the only version I was aware of), it suggests that your characters _can_ interact, but only as long as they do so in character and treat each other as they were strangers.

I understand the need to keep OOC knowledge OOC and I also understand the need to keep characters run by the same player from banding together too often. I first started playing Cantr waaaaaay back in the early to mid 100s, and part of the reason I stopped (and was gone for so long) was because of the near impossibility to get anywhere without a gang of CR-breaching characters sweeping through and killing everyone in sight.

What's most confusing and frustrating is the existance of two versions of the CR; a simple version of the CR publicly posted and a more complex, subjective version that's enforced.

Since this is such a slowly paced game, it's awfully frustrating to spend real time weeks getting a character to a particular point and then have the PD order you to do something with your characters because it _appears_ that you _might_ break the CR. My experience with the PD so far is that they are enforcing meta-breaches of the CR and not actual breaches themselves.

If that is indeed their purpose, then fine. Rules is rules and I'm completely willing to abide by them or leave. But I think it would make for a much more enjoyable gaming experience (especially for newbies) if the publicly viewable version of the rule were updated to reflect the real policies of the PD.
</SOAPBOX>

[Doug R.]

1. Play your character from your character's point of view, considering only what your character has experienced or has knowledge of. Do not allow knowledge gained with another one of your characters or from OOC sources to affect the decisions made by the character.

2. Play it safe and avoid situations where it may appear you are violating the first point. Two characters working together in the same location, despite the fact that said interaction may be perfectly IC behavior for the characters in question, can look potentially suspicious.

This is a paradox. You can't do number 2 and not violate number 1. Recognizing that another character is yours and taking evasive action is using OOC knowledge and it technically is itself a capital rule violation.

As far as I'm concerned, common sense dictates that your characters act as your characters act. For them to act differently due to OOC knowledge (i.e. that another character is yours) is against common sense. I will follow the rules as written, and if anyone has a problem with it, I have all my turn logs that will prove that I never breached the CR. That's the way I look at it, and I think that's what everyone else should do as well.

The easiest way to avoid trouble is never play two characters that have overlapping ambitions/personalities. I have 5 characters, and they fully represent all aspects of my personality. For me to have more would be inviting trouble, since I'd be playing personality replicates essentially. If the game had a mechanism to space people's characters out so they started very far from eachother, like on different islands/continents, this problem would be greatly diminished. Just my 2 cents.

[AoM]

I've never been called up on a CR.

I'm with Wichita in that I do not need these rules spelled out for me. This isn't the Magna Carta, it isn't the Constitution of the USA, the fate of Western Civilization itself does not depend upon this game being strictly defined. If anything ruins the fun of a game, it's Rule Lawyering.

Truth: OOC info is innately a part of every character you control. Ever notice how your 16th newspawn character doesn't ask the same questions that your 1st newspawn did? Heck, some might even get busy making bone clubs right off the bat. Some might take it a step further and sell the first 10 years of their lives to an iron-producing organization on their first day. Why? Because we as players start to know how the game works. We have different goals for each character, but we start to figure out better ways to get them realized faster. Is this wrong? A hardcore RPer might say yes, but for most, we can let this one slide. Common sense, achieved!

Pop Quiz: The fourth character in a row has spawned in Drjorf Hills North (Yawn), what do you do? Find a way to spread them out. This should be a natural response for anyone who is aware of the intentions of the CR. this game is big enough that you have OPTIONS. Make one a sailor, make two of them travel in opposite directions giving you a Seatown Forester and a MacGregor. The final one can stay in DHN. This is of course the divinity of OOC knowledge spreading your characters out, but by the intent of the CR, we know that this way of using OOC is a good thing. It shouldn't be hard to realize that using OOC knowledge about the whereabouts of your own characters to avoid the possibility of a suspicious situation is okay.

Cliches: Don't sweat the small stuff. See the forest, not the trees.

Jos made the mountains,
Jos made the lakes,
Jos broke CR in Quillanoi,
We all make mistakes.