What is the purpose?

[Sarah]

Don't blame it on the school system or your age or anything else; you can help yourself just by reading. You can pick things up without having them specifically taught to you. Yes, the school system can take some blame, but I think success really depends on the student, not the school. Don't make excuses.

I can guarantee you that I used better grammar and spelling than that when I was 11. Just put some effort in!

No offense meant, though, Pie. I don't want to make it sound like I'm making some sort of personal attack on you. . . .

[Surly]

Err . . . can I ask why you included "gay" in the "non-American" category? What do you mean by "we can't understand them when they vote"? I've never voted myself, but I'm sure they've made voting pretty idiot-proof, like everything else . . .

Yeah, that explains hanging chads, pregnant chads and all the other members of the chad family.

Totally idiot proof...

[Jos Elkink]

Hmm, a very interesting thread, but soo much going off-topic. Can we really not talk about character motivations - a key part of the game - without sidetracking for pages into ancient game history (interesting, but separate thread, please) or a dozen or so posts on spelling?

Anyway, more on topic ...

The beauty of Cantr is that many aspects of personality are there to develop, from personal motivations to the character's understanding of his / her role in grand scheme of things. The purpose of Cantr is to play a role and to sit back and watch how that role interacts with all of the other roles until it is weaved into a rich tapestry of story and simulated society.

For just a few moments out of each day I get to step into a world that is not this one and into a life that is not my own, to feel free to explore aspects of life and culture currently unavailable to myself, but are fully accessible to my little digital alter egos floating somewhere out there in cyberspace, in a world that is relatively free of mechanical restrictions and rules - a land where imagination reigns supreme and its bounds are limitless. That is what Cantr's purpose is for me.

Sorry for the long quote, but it's a bit far up-thread where I take this from ... I really like this one. This is so close to why I like this kind of games - you can explore parts of life that are not available to yourself. I'm fairly pacifistic in real life, out of principle, but in Cantr I can play a cruel military commander; I'm focusing on academics and computers in real life, but in Cantr I can play a politician and try to become powerful ... it's exactly what I like doing. Cantr is at times a bit slow, though, so I think I spend more time daydreaming about possible futures of my characters than actually playing them, but yes, this is quite key ...

The true challenge of the game is to bend others to your will, or else bind all individual wills to a common cause.

Oh, yes, definitely true as well. For me, this is part of the challenge. Hence my great frustration when everybody immediately cooperates like a bunch of sheep ... Cantr characters are sooo nice to each other and especially their community. It's more fun to have to use more rhetorics etc. But it's fun to talk and talk and bluf just to get people to follow you ... Or to use violence, of course ... Even though the game would be weird if all characters were bad guys, I definitely like playing them most.

In Cantr, the challenge is to create something that will outlive you

True. Isn't that true in real life as well? Personally, I don't believe in an afterlife or reincarnation - but I believe in this, trying to create something that outlives you, as a way of immortality. Well, big words for a simple guy like me, but I do kind of mean it ... Caesar and Machiavelli are still 'alive' - 17th century farmer Jan Elkink isn't really ... (Well, a little bit, since I know he existed - that's at least something ...)

Finally, in it's current supine condition, the game provides little incentive to write further histories since nothing happens. The GAC people wanted to destroy the nasty pirates attacking "their" KDF. Well they succeeded....and pretty much wrecked the game at the same time.

I really shouldn't reply to this, but ..... what are you talking about?? Pirates are still nasty, no? I'm not aware of having done anything about it. Besides, I don't think any GAC members are, or were even, powerful in the KDF ...

I'm 100% convinced that none of the GAC people is making decisions for the advantage of their own characters. They're not that kind of people ... Several of us like to create things that create real challenges for characters (especially Sico and me) - sometimes too much so - quite the opposite of trying to help our own chars. The GAC is not at all worried about pirates ...

[Nixit]

man, i should really stic to pie. pie is the way to go.

And 13 west. 13. so you can't really blame me for my bad spelling and grammatical mistakes. it's the school sistm. actually, there was this teacher in the 3 grade, ms., well, i don't remember, but she knew how to teach spelling. and if you think reading my typing is bad, try reading my handwriting....................................and..................................yes! i have just beat my personal record for the longest post i have made. and the least spelling mistakes, as far as i can tell.

I'm thirteen. I have fine grammar and spelling.

EDIT: Sorry for going off... I just had to point this out.

[wichita]

I also find it hard to believe that current Cantrian society is 100% devoid of anything historically noteworthy. There is a ton of stuff going on if you are able to just step out of the glory days of the 500s or whenever your Rennaisance was occurring. It's rather annoying watching all of these old fuddy-duddy posts floating around shaking their fists at all of us young whipper-snappers trying to do something....OMG ...different for a change! *gasp*


And, Nixit, I wish there were a lot more 13 year olds as far along on the development timeline as you, man. You beat out quite a few 30 year olds that I've known in my time.

[Nixit]

Hehe... I suppose I should be proud now.

[rklenseth]

man, i should really stic to pie. pie is the way to go.

And 13 west. 13. so you can't really blame me for my bad spelling and grammatical mistakes. it's the school sistm. actually, there was this teacher in the 3 grade, ms., well, i don't remember, but she knew how to teach spelling. and if you think reading my typing is bad, try reading my handwriting....................................and..................................yes! i have just beat my personal record for the longest post i have made. and the least spelling mistakes, as far as i can tell.

I came from Averill Park. And as long as I don't type too fast and skip words and miss typos I am pretty good. In fact, school doesn't count until college anyways.

[The Sociologist]

Finally, in it's current supine condition, the game provides little incentive to write further histories since nothing happens. The GAC people wanted to destroy the nasty pirates attacking "their" KDF. Well they succeeded....and pretty much wrecked the game at the same time.

I really shouldn't reply to this, but ..... what are you talking about?? Pirates are still nasty, no? I'm not aware of having done anything about it. Besides, I don't think any GAC members are, or were even, powerful in the KDF ...

Pirates are not still nasty, no. Well, a few may try to be "nasty" in the personal sense, but they are not nasty in the sense of dangerous to any town locked down with keys. Secondly, it should be obvious that the combination of the skills and tiredness systems wrecked the game's balance from that perspective. Thirdly, I meant KDS--the region--and not KDF. Sorry about that and it does change the import of what I said.

I noticed that when the tiredness system really hit hard and so many left the game, the KDS leadership remained largely intact (except for some functionaries like Jo Jo) but their "external enemies" were decimated. There had been an ongoing thing, a bit oocly actually, between certain "piratical" types and the leadership of certain key areas. These were all old players and everyone seemed to know who everyone else was.

When the tiredness system first hit with its ~2% per day recovery rate and it became obvious to me that this was revenge intended to drive certain people from the game, there was a clear pattern to the deaths from sleeping sickness. People must think I'm completely stupid that I couldn't analyze the pattern.

Surely people must have wondered why no town in the KDS has ever broken ranks with the regional policies that reduce them to backwardness?

I'm 100% convinced that none of the GAC people is making decisions for the advantage of their own characters. They're not that kind of people ... Several of us like to create things that create real challenges for characters (especially Sico and me) - sometimes too much so - quite the opposite of trying to help our own chars. The GAC is not at all worried about pirates ...

I wouldn't say they make decisions narrowly focussed on the personal gain of their own individual characters. No. But it is very clear that recent changes have been instituted to bring about global outcomes that conserve and maintain power in certain regions regarded as key.

I find it really very ironic that you express surprise that everyone in the game is "too nice". Yet just a while back there were all those complaints about massacres, murders and mayhem. How to reconcile? Obvious, I would think. Those specializing in less-than-nice or other kinds of "power" characters left the game.

Look, you can track how the game varies between sugary and spicey by the MWS "onion futures". Right now the game is sugary in the extreme, positively saccharine in fact. That's what key established players seemed to want and that's what they got. Jos, how can you possibly claim not to understand how it happened?

[Jos Elkink]

Pirates are not still nasty, no. Well, a few may try to be "nasty" in the personal sense, but they are not nasty in the sense of dangerous to any town locked down with keys.

Are you suggesting that the ability to lock things away in this game is damaging gameplay?

Secondly, it should be obvious that the combination of the skills and tiredness systems wrecked the game's balance from that perspective.

Yes, the balancing there is still not optimal ... We're working on it, though.

Thirdly, I meant KDS--the region--and not KDF. Sorry about that and it does change the import of what I said.

It changes it slightly, because at least one GAC member is in that area ... but still most of the GAC members are not and linking GAC policies with protecting the KDS region is just plain nonsense.

There had been an ongoing thing, a bit oocly actually, between certain "piratical" types and the leadership of certain key areas. These were all old players and everyone seemed to know who everyone else was.

This is just silly, vague, insinuating language ... without further details I'll just ignore this.

When the tiredness system first hit with its ~2% per day recovery rate and it became obvious to me that this was revenge intended to drive certain people from the game, there was a clear pattern to the deaths from sleeping sickness.

Revenge?? Driving people from the game?? You really see ghosts here! The tiredness factor was implemented because it was too easy for one militant to hurt loads of people and run away unharmed ... it required defenders to cooperate, but not attackers. Thus the violence system was not working and had to be altered. THAT was the reason - it really had utterly nothing to do with revenge.

I really don't understand who should revenge over what ...

Surely people must have wondered why no town in the KDS has ever broken ranks with the regional policies that reduce them to backwardness?

Perhaps as an in-character strategic tactic to remain the regional peace after having been known as the 'troubled region' in the past? The regional peace there came about as a necessity, not as an OOC strategy between players ... At least, that's my impression - I've never been seriously active in the region.

I wouldn't say they make decisions narrowly focussed on the personal gain of their own individual characters. No. But it is very clear that recent changes have been instituted to bring about global outcomes that conserve and maintain power in certain regions regarded as key.

Key for what? For who? Conserving and maintaining power is not a goal of the GAC.

I find it really very ironic that you express surprise that everyone in the game is "too nice". Yet just a while back there were all those complaints about massacres, murders and mayhem. How to reconcile? Obvious, I would think. Those specializing in less-than-nice or other kinds of "power" characters left the game.

If that's true, that's a serious pity ... Because for me those players make the game. Note, however, that some of the most powerful characters were powerful thanks to serious CR breaches, which had to be stopped (e.g. Blojt in the past).

The only think that was seriously attempted to stop is single-handed massacres, because they don't work with a slow paced game like this - one person should not be able to seriously hurt loads of people before they even have a chance to log on and reply ... There has been no attempt to stop massacres per se. They should just require organisation.

Look, you can track how the game varies between sugary and spicey by the MWS "onion futures". Right now the game is sugary in the extreme, positively saccharine in fact. That's what key established players seemed to want and that's what they got.

I don't know who you think those key established players are, but if it includes Sico, me, Jerry, Cosmo, Thomas, Richard ... then I think you're definitely wrong - I honestly don't know exactly about the other "key established players".

I admit that some of the changes have not worked out as intended. Balancing a game properly to make extreme violence possible while making peace possible as well is hugely difficult. Some players on the forum seem to think it's easy and we're just stupid, but that's just nonsense. But although some misbalancing has seriously affected the game, all your conspiracy theories and paranoia arguments are really very silly.

I don't know why I bother replying, but alas ..... Now can we get back on subject?

[colonel]

Okay first off, let me get something out of the way. *Gives The Sociolist a hug.* There okay now, as far as I gather from what I have read this is about what we get out of cantr or what we expect out of cantr.

Well, for me it is all fun.

For my characters, well that is different for each one of them.
- Materialistic things are not a big thing to me in rl so well that comes out in most of my characters.

- I am no leader in rl and well I have found that being one in character is very tough but I try.

- Being mean or rude is something I have a very hard time doing in rl, but well I think I am pretty good at it with Thorn Von Castlerock. LOL.

What I am trying to say is, Cantr is my release. It helps me be someone or something I can't be in real life.

And since I have been playing I must say that every change is good. Because, it shows that Jos will never stop making the game better and that to me is awesome.

I think Cantr is looked at in many different ways by many people. And that is what makes it so great to play for me.

Now if I have gone way off track with this I am sorry, I could not really grasp what this was about by what I read but I thought that I should give someone a hug.

[kinvoya]

Sociologist, your obsession with power, control, dominance, bending other chars to your chars' will and eugenics makes you think that these are the secret dreams and goals of every other player, especially GAC, whatever that is. And it so is not. I think that most players just want to have fun roleplaying their chars and, depending on the character's personality, that may or may not involve violence and power.

I don't think there is any conspiracy for the Big Guys to control things to their advantage. And I super don't think they are out to get you. I do think some old time players and a few new players talk ooc to help their chars and that's a bummer because 1) I think they would have more fun if they just played straight and 2) It puts other players at a disadvantage in various ways.

But, hey. I just think of it in terms of rl politics. There are always people in a position to pull strings and get advantages and other "little people" who have to struggle for every little thing in life. Some of my chars have gotten lucky and found wealthy, powerful chars who help them and some haven't. It's the way of society, no?

[Nick]

I think there is indeed staff abuse, and problems with corruption of staff.

But I think you're going too far, Sociologist. Starting to sound paranoid.

[Oasis]

I sincerely think your opinions are wrong, Nick.

Any staff abuse that is discovered is immediately dealt with. Paranoia about staff corruption is just that......paranoia.

[west]

The thing is, people who are on staff, especially higher up, also tend to be the people who have played the game for the longest and (presumably) are fairly good at it. More importantly, they started when there were much fewer players, and since they're on staff those who still play are much less likely to be around more consistently and longer than most other people.

Therefore someone sees a powerful older character that's been in charge in a certain area for a long while. Then they notice that that same player has other chars that are also pretty powerful, and then they notice that player is on staff, and so are the players of other old established characters. They think to themselves, (presumably), "why are THEY powerful? What do they got that I don't got?"

There's a couple different answers to this. One is, "They've been playing for three years and have developed a good knowledge of how the game and the people in it work, and also made friends with other people who also have played the game for a long time."

The other is, "Oh, they're staff, and they're cheating."

[kinvoya]

and also made friends with other people who also have played the game for a long time.

And this helps their chars in the game because...?