Strange internet people

[Dee]

We didn't have a clash, did we?

Do you mean the one when you called me a stupid then apologized? It happens. And I forgave you. That's not a clash!

[Gyrus]

I can not believe my eyes

As you know i am the translater of the Turkish area and the one who deals with promoting the Turkish Cantr. I am feeling a great pain now.

Let us make things clear:

When you make a search in the forum by the keyword "turkish" you get this thread on top, and as ususal when you come a new area, you try to find your people. And after reading the thread with patience you come to the words of sekoETC ( I want to believe that she only claims few Turkish guys but the words she used "ALL TURKISH and EGYPTIONS" really hurt me and it is normal from haybinyar to give reply to her in a polite way

Haybinyar said: I invite you to be more careful when you pick your words, i'm Turkish and i don't like any kind of stereotyping.
Keep your hatreds to yourself please.

So i am really feeling sick now that everybody said a word to him as :

Hallucinatingfarmer:that's quite an impressive drag from the depths of the Cantr forum. One day off a year old...

But you're right...

He joined the day before, maybe he spent a whole day looking for something he could find offensive?

The Surly cantrian:An interesting topic for your first post... did you trawl through the forum looking for spmething offensive against Turkish people?

I just don't understand resurrecting a topic dead for a year... and just saying something rather inane...

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And i thank west as he understands the feeling of newcomers.

West: I think Seko probably meant that the turkish people who IM her assume that all Europeans are whores. And since you don't know who's been IMing her, who are you to challenge that assertion?

On the other hand, now that we've got a Turkish language area I expect we'll see a lot more Turkish people around...and Seko, they're likely to search the forum for "Turkish" to see who else is around (as is natural) so I wouldn't be surprised if you get more people expressing their disappointment in you.


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And after reading those i thoguht that Seko will take a step back and will say i mean some people, but she said this

SekoETC:Oh great. I won't be changing or deleting out my opinions just because there's a Turkish community being started in Cantr. Even if people from all countries have their faults and good sides, in the web I've ran into most clashes with people from Turkey, Egypt and around there. If I have more nice experiences then I might change my mind. But I'm sure not doing it just because someone tells me to.


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I am feeling really sick now, there are a lot of rude people in every country, but how you find the right to say that i hate TURKS and EGYPTIONS ... please give me a good reason, or i will be realy broken.

I adore this community and spent a lot of time on making a Turkish part, but now i see that a few people ruin everything ( I hope that they will turn from this attitude very fast ) ( I want to belive this way)

[formerly known as hf]

I can understand that a new turkish player would search for 'Turkish', and would be upset to find Seko's post. But that is Seeks' post, and has no bearing on the general feeling of the forum.

I admit I made fun, it is a little out of the ordinary to see a thread dragged up like that, and anyway, like I said, he's right.

[Jos Elkink]

Gyrus, I'm sorry to hear you feel so upset about this. Personally, I think it's so stupid to say that all people from a country are bad or anything, that I can only laugh at it and ignore it. If you would tell me all Dutch people are insane, I'd just laugh in your face, and wouldn't feel offended. But that's different for different people, of course, and I agree that this is not the nicest introduction to Cantr for new players from Turkey ...

What is important to keep in mind, though, is that this remark about Turkish people is really from only one out of about 1200 Cantr players. There is no general dislike of Turkish people on the forum, so you really don't have anything to worry about. If Seko is not able to distinguish one Turkish person from another, it's really her problem, not yours ...

[Dee]

He's right. It's offending. And as an Egyptian, I am offended. And the fact that she does not want to apologize for it, it just offends me more. I wrote my other post before I saw the post where she said that thing about all Turkish and Egyptians.

Now that I saw it, I think she owes us an apology. Ain't that fair?

Seko, you're a very rude person. I'm not saying that because you said that particular sentence, but it's just something that I've noticed throughout most of your posts. But I'm not going to assume that all Europeans are rude, because I know they are not.

[TatteredShoeLace]

Booo Seko, as a CD you know whats right and wrong. This and the increased swearing needs to stop. Where's Rev the Reliable when we need him?

[Surly]

He's right. It's offending. And as an Egyptian, I am offended. And the fact that she does not want to apologize for it, it just offends me more. I wrote my other post before I saw the post where she said that thing about all Turkish and Egyptians.

Um... how is it offensive to you, Dee? She said she hated Turkish guys and Egyptian guys as well.

I also thought you were an Egyptian girl? If you can get offended by her not liking Egyptian guys, shouldn't I also find it offensive that she doesn't like Egyptian guys?

Don't cloud the issue by getting offended by something that doesn't apply to you.

Now as for the Turkish issue... I don't understand how it is that offensive. If Seko has bad experiences with Turkish men, and hates all of them because of that, it is her right to say so. Just because she hates Turkish people, it does not mean we all do (although I've never met a Turkish man, so I can't form an opinion on that...) I said the comment was inane... because it was. Digging up a topic that has been dead for a year, to complain about the one post on the entire forum that might be offensive to Turkish people? Seems pointless to me. By all means complain if it was posted last week... but a year ago? Come on... I don't see an issue here, and there really isn't any reason to be so offended. Seko is entitled to her opinion, and so are you. Let's at least wait for Seko's defence before we get any worse, okay?

All I have to say for now...

[rklenseth]

Let people hate and love whomever they want. You're not going to change their minds and life is to short to be offended by anything. Like Jos said, just shrug and laugh because it is when you get offended and angry is when you give them ammunition to fire back with.

I find that Irish and Jewish people make more fun of themselves than anyone could ever of them. I think there is wisdom in that.

[west]

Um... how is it offensive to you, Dee? She said she hated Turkish guys and Egyptian guys as well.

I also thought you were an Egyptian girl? If you can get offended by her not liking Egyptian guys, shouldn't I also find it offensive that she doesn't like Egyptian guys?

So if you say that all American women are sluts because you keep getting propositioned by Yahoo! pr0n bots, I can't get offended because I'm an American guy?

Dee is Egyptian. That means she has relatives and friends who are Egyptian, some of whom are *gasp* MALE. That means that Seko has insulted Dee's friends and relatives by saying she hates Egyptian men. And since, you know, an Egyptian man was probably somehow involved in Dee's birth, what's poor Dee supposed to assume?

If Nitefyre (for example) had said, say, all Dutch girls are easy and disease-ridden (which neither I nor, to my knowledge, he, believe), don't you think Jos and Sico and all our other Dutch friends might get a wee bit offended?

Honestly, Surly. Show some sense.

I do think Jos and RKL are right, people should generally be less easily offended. But at the same time, if I am new on a forum and am looking for people like myself, and the first thing I see is a post saying how much someone hates me and everyone like me based on the actions of a few people that person has dealt with (that, by the way, is prejudice, plain and simple), I'd be sad too.

Seko, I do believe an apology is forthcoming. I'm all in favor of insulting individual people (Nitefyre smells), but saying you hate all Turkish and Egyptian guys because a few of them hit on you in YIM! is immature and prejudicial and doesn't foster the kind of "love the people, hate the individual" attitude we try to encourage on this forum. (Nitefyre smells)

[Dee]

Thank you, West.

There's nothing more for me to say.

[SekoETC]

Ok, what I said Is a generalization. I cannot know all the people from that region and being prejudiced isn't helping to get more than hostile encounters. I feel really bad about making people feel sad with this.

But I've not just pulled a thought out of thin air. Even though my mother told me to be careful with foreigners, especially from the south, I refused to go along with. I tried to be friendly to people no matter where they're from. But almost every encounter was a negative one. Most of them with males. Most of them from Turkey. Most of them on ICQ. Later I switched on to YIM. Also some encounters there.

Most common encounter? I talk to a guy to a while, he has seen my picture on my profile, not even a good picture, a small picture that doesn't show skin or anything. They say I'm pretty. I tell them I'm not. They try to be friends with me. I say I have already some friends, give me some reason to continue this conversation. Do we have common interests? Usually the guys don't have any hobbies other than "trying to find friends from around the world". One was interested in cars and other stuff, but never the same things as me. Now talking is ok, but they usually start asking if I'm coming over to Turkey, or even when am I coming over. I tell them I don't like travelling and most of my friends are in the Web. I don't care much about meeting people in real life. Usually they say that's alright, but keep asking about it later on, like their charms would make me change my mind. If they start openly talking about sex, I usually cut it short or tell them not to do that again. But those people never understand the meaning of never. The closest thing for a healthy encounter was when a guy understood that I had had bad experiences in the past and left me alone after saying I hope one day you'll realize that all people of a nationality aren't like that. I felt bad for having racistic prejudice over him even though we didn't match by interests.

Probably my first encounter with a Turkish guy was in a Finnish 8-ball channel. He was an immigrant, living in Oulu. I live in Kotka, in the other side of the country. He starts asking if I'd like to come over, he works in a kebab place, would I like to come over for lunch. I tell him I'm a vegetarian, and besides the distance is too much. Ok. Then he makes a big fuss about me using the word "lähiaikoina" (in the near future) instead of the word "viimeaikoina" (lately). Like I was somehow insulting him like he didn't know the difference. I was all amazed how can someone get mad over such a little thing. I started thinking no, this must be some sort of a prank. You're not really a Turkish immigrant, you're just some Finnish schoolboy trying to make people feel awkward. He got totally mad and started calling me a whore and stuff like that. So I left.

Another time some guy messages me on ICQ all politely asking if I'd like to chat. We chat for a while, I notice he's not fluent in English and the conversation isn't going anywhere. I tell him I would like to stop the conversation. He blatantly said "eff you" in the non-sensored way. He was also from Turkey.

If Cantr will drag out intelligent people who are interested in roleplay and stuff like that, then good. I won't refuse to interact with Turkish people in the game, like how would we even know the nationality of another player? And I greatly doubt that anyone would mistake Cantr as a match-making agency... but there are already those players who spawn to have sex.

Dee, meeting you was a refreshing experience. The first girl from that region I've ever met. Before I was wondering do they even let girls use the Web? I remember once we started talking on the IRC channel and I told you I'm sorry I've been bashing against Egyptians. And you said you can understand why I've had bad experiences with Arabs because many of them guys are a real pain in the neck. You also taught me that the way your language is written doesn't make a difference between capital and lowercase letters, so it's more likely for people not to know the difference when writing English. (In case someone isn't familiar with this, the group I bash about the most is those who write all lowercase.) When we had that clash I thought "oh great, now this is taken as a racistic remark". It could have been anybody. Your actions seemed childish and thoughtless and you could have ended up being a puppet for the bad guys. It was just a game but I take games seriously. But I would have said it to anyone acting that way, no matter what their nationality.

Gyrus, you seem like an intelligent person. I've been watching your posts and trying to do so in a non-prejudiced way. You seem ok. But I'm still on the lookout, I can't just start trusting people if 99% of those with the same culture and genetic heritage are just looking for pussy.

[west]

So you're going to judge 300 million Arabs and 70 million Turks because three or four people talked to you in ways you don't like?

Maybe my fractions are off, or maybe in your part of Finland you just do them differently, but four is not 99% of 370 million.

Seriously, Seko, you're just digging yourself deeper.

Gyrus, you seem like an intelligent person. I've been watching your posts and trying to do so in a non-prejudiced way. You seem ok. But I'm still on the lookout, I can't just start trusting people if 99% of those with the same culture and genetic heritage are just looking for pussy.

And this is just embarrassing to read.

[Surly]

I stand by what I said, west. Telling me to "show some sense" really doesn't help anything.

I would like to say, for the record, that I have many Egyptian relatives. My Aunt (and my godmother) married an Egyptian man, and I have several cousins who were born in Egypt and have Egyptian passports. I do not want anything I say to be misconstrued as an attack on Egyptians (or Turks), because what I am talking about is a different issue.

What Dee said implied that the post was directly offensive to her. Yes, Seko was generalising when she said what she did (or at least I hope so) but that is no reason to make it seem like it was a remark about all Turkish and Egyptian people. With hindsight, I probably shouldn't have drawn that distinction, because the issue for me is not to do with this... more an argument against the wave of political correctness which means I (and others) cannot say what we feel, and any comment made is instantly applicable to everybody.

I'm guessing that Seko hadn't met Dee at the time, so how can her remark be offensive to her? They are two very different issues, and what I meant was there is no point in taking offense at something which is not directly aimed at you. There has been plenty of things said on this forum that I could construe as offensive to me if I wanted... but why?

I apologise to Dee for what I said, and for using what she said as an excuse to vent my feelings on a related but directly similar issue. I stand by what I said, because I feel strongly on this issue. However, I apologise for any offense caused.

[SekoETC]

ICQ ignore list: 7 from Turkey, 1 from Egypt, 1 from Australia, 9 blank (probably commercial bots or deleted accounts), 3 different for someone named Karen (pornbot?), 2 unsure. I don't ignore people unless they get harassive or rude. And I usually unblock them after a while so the actual numbers are even bigger. Three or four? I wish...

I really wouldn't want this to turn into a war. I've made it clear I'm prejudiced for a reason and if you'll leave me alone then I'll leave you alone as well.

[Dee]

Seko, Surly, just forget about this.

I'm sure neither of you meant what you said. You can't judge a whole nation based on one experience with a pervert.

Let go of it, really. It's becoming annoying.