Deterioration...again.

[Lumin]

At the risk of digging up dead horses, I've been doing some thinking about deterioration and figured I might as well post about it here.

Cantr needs deterioration, there's no question about that, but I think nobody's going to be really happy about it until:

A.) Repairs are implemented.

B.) Items rot at a rate that makes sense for the amount of time it took to make them.

and

C.) Items rot at a rate that makes sense for the amount of times they're used.

I can't do anything about the first two, but...well, I can't do anything about the last one, either, but I do have a suggestion for a compromise.

One of the problems I've had with the way deterioration was implemented was that while the purpose for it was to help balance and stimulate the economy, it made things nearly impossible for traders and businesses. Nobody wants to buy something that's used or crumbling, even if it's never been touched. Given travel distances and the amount of time it takes to actually negotiate a deal, this means most businesses are only going to be able to sell 'brand new' items locally.

So my idea is, when deterioration finally happens, why not give the poor traders a break and make it so that items don't actually start to decay until used?

I'm not asking for 'rate of decay based on rate of use' or anything complicated like that (though it would be nice). What I mean that once a weapon or tool is used once, it starts to deteriorate at a normal rate. Until the first use it stays brand new. That way you can carry a shipment of tools on a long trip, but it doesn't become 'used' until a customer buys and actually uses it.

This may have programming or balance issues I'm not aware of, but either way I'll be glad to hear any thoughts on the idea.

[Surly]

Cantr needs deterioration, there's no question about that,

That's not a true statement... I frequently question that.

I'm not asking for 'rate of decay based on rate of use' or anything complicated like that (though it would be nice).

I think that's exactly what we need. It is a compromise between the society simulator (items decay) and the not having to log in everyday (you know that if you spend ages making an item, it's not going to disappear unused because you go away for the week).

Item deterioration would be fine if items were as easy to make as they used to be. But with the complication of iron, and the introduction of modular buidling... I think it really is a case of one or the other.

[Lumin]

Cantr needs deterioration, there's no question about that,

That's not a true statement... I frequently question that.

Well, my belief is that it's necessary. The economy will stagnate (heck, is stagnating) without supply and demand. Characters die, but the things they make stay around forever. The glut of items is going to cause more and more problems as theyears go by.

I'm not asking for 'rate of decay based on rate of use' or anything complicated like that (though it would be nice).

I think that's exactly what we need. It is a compromise between the society simulator (items decay) and the not having to log in everyday (you know that if you spend ages making an item, it's not going to disappear unused because you go away for the week).

Item deterioration would be fine if items were as easy to make as they used to be. But with the complication of iron, and the introduction of modular buidling... I think it really is a case of one or the other.

Actually, I agree with you, but we've already asked for the amount of times an item is used to determine decay, and it's apparently not going to happen. (I seem to remember someone saying it would be too hard to program.) If we can't have the original compromise, than I'd at least prefer a compromise of the compromise over having everything rot at the same rate no matter what.

[Surly]

Too hard to program? Really? I thought that how often an item is used affects items right now anyway, its just that rot works much quicker... I didn't think the programming would be too dissimilar. But I may very well be wrong...

[Solfius]

It all sounds good.

I'm off the mind, that if left unused most things would last at least 1 lifetime before showing any signs of rot, so I like the idea of use based deterioration with a very small and subtle element of natural rot.

[creepyguyinblack]

Repair will soon be functioning, so just wait for that and we can then see how the current rates are functioning.

[Surly]

Oh no...

Is this going to be a horrible repeat of tiredness, where the game was used as an ultimately failing experiment over tiredness, and the effects were reduced to near minimal when it was realised it was ruining the game?

Any natural rot will completely change the game and set Cantr back decades. There will suddenly be no back supply of tools, and all time will need to be spent repairing unused tools... killing the economy.

Deterioration = fair
Rot = Bad

I was thinking earlier, and I don't know how viable this is, about having two values for the quality of a tool. One is age, and this is the small rot Solfius was alluding to. The other is use, and is deterioration by use.

Example:
A new unused longbow
An old shoddy longbow
A decrepit well-maintained longbow

Age deterioration is minimal, but cannot be reversed. This effects the use when combined with other descriptors such as well-worn...
Deterioration can be reversed by a simple, materialless, project which improves the use stat by 1 level per day.

Is that similar to what you meant, Solfius?

[Lumin]

Industriallist, that sounds perfect.

But I have to wonder how likely we are to actually see a system like that...

[Surly]

Industriallist?

[Lumin]

Surly, I mean!

LOL, no clue where I got Industriallist from. I must have seen his name on another thread or something. (I've got the forum open in two windows, Cantr itself open in another, and in I've got five kittens running all over my room demanding to be fed...I have a right to be distracted! )

[rklenseth]

Repair will soon be functioning, so just wait for that and we can then see how the current rates are functioning.

I'll do it tomorrow. I'll make an afternoon of it but I swear to God, if anyone complains.............

[Yo_Yo]

... I hate all of you that pushed him to this!

I just got that damned sword!

I'm gonna be continuously poor ;.;

[Lumin]

Tomorrow, seriously?

But if it's horribly unbalanced I'm sure we will complain. Because how else would you if it's horribly unbalanced or not?

Though once it's implemented can we at least get one more decay reset, so that those of us with an old weapon have time to scramble around for materials to repair it with?

[The Industriallist]

We had a reset not that long ago...do you actually know of any items that are in bad shape so soon?

[AngelSpice]

My bows are already used.