The Ancient One

[Solfius]

I think using the word "logic" or its derivitives in a discussion about religion is tempting some kind of rebuttal...

[Birdsall007]

Sorry, I wasn't clear....

God loves everyone...and no particular religion over the other.

That's the part that I was disagreeing with. The rest of it, no problem whatsoever.

EDIT: I forgot to write that I totally agree that God loves people of all religions, it's the practice of those religions that He hates.

[Stan]

I think using the word "logic" or its derivitives in a discussion about religion is tempting some kind of rebuttal...

Why do people assume when someone talks about religion that logic should be checked at the door? I don't believe it does. Of course, there are aspects of a faith that are just that, faith. But there are aspects that can be viewed through classical logic.

For instance, Jesus was logically one of 3 things: a liar, a nut, or He was God. He said he was God. So, either he was lying, crazy or telling the truth. One must make a logical determination. If A then not C. If B then not C. If A then maybe B or if B then maybe A. But, if C then not B or not A.

That's all I mean when I'm talking about logic. Faith comes into play when you observe the evidence to draw the conclusion. However, this is always the case, even in a court room. A person must decide if they believe the evidence or not. If they believe it they faithfully abide by the conclusion they draw.

That's what I meant.

Either way, it is arguable as you state, nonetheless, it isn't required to check logic at the door. In fact, it is essential.

[Stan]

Sorry, I wasn't clear....

God loves everyone...and no particular religion over the other.

That's the part that I was disagreeing with. The rest of it, no problem whatsoever.

EDIT: I forgot to write that I totally agree that God loves people of all religions, it's the practice of those religions that He hates.

Birdsall, that was a typo on my part. I meant that He loves the people who practice those religions...not the religion itself. My belief is that He finds "other" religious practice detestable because it isn't was He intended.

[Solfius]

What I meant was people would probably make some point about proof, logic and religion etc.

Although, couldn't he be God and also crazy? I see no reason why not.

[Stan]

Hmmm...interesting thought. I'll have to think on that one.

[Schme]

Very nice story, very New Age. Pick a bit from this religion, a bit from that one. Mix it all together as you like and let no-one tell you that it's wrong because it works for you.

This was written about a hundred years ago.

[Nixit]

A smart man then.

But Jesus wouldn't have had to be a liar or a nut or God, he might've just not known any other way. Ignorance, not bad ignorance, just not knowing.

[Schme]

Well, to be fair, he did know other ways, seeing as if he did not have any devine connections, he made up the way.

However, it would not be fair to call him a nut simply because he believed something.

[Nixit]

Well if he made up the way, he might not have known that others ways were possible as well. *shrugs*

[Stan]

Except He said this just before Heaven opened and He ascended into Heaven in front of the Disciples:

Matthew 28:16-20

16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

To say that you have to be lying or nuts, unless you are who you say you are.

By the way, those same Disciples were all martyred for what they say they saw. Would you die for something that you knew was an absolute lie? You might for something you believed but never witnessed, but these guys witnessed it. And they went to the grave because of it. Sounds like strong evidence to me.

[Nixit]

If it's accurate.

[Stan]

You're right. That's true. Maybe someone else can speak to that issue better than I, but human written testimony is typically accepted as evidence in historical record.

I think documents uncovered (such as the Dead Sea scrolls) match very closely to the recent translations of the Bible. In fact, my Bible references the Dead Sea Scrolls which were written by the very early Church.

I look at it this way. If the Progressives are right and there are many ways to get to heaven I feel confident that I've latched onto one of them. But if the Bible is right and Jesus is Lord and His way is the only way, well, I don't really like to think of the consequences for those that turn a blind eye if they've been told the truth and choose not to accept it.

I'm not passing judgement. That's not my job. I'm neither Judge or jury. But, I do have a job to help tell the truth as a witness when asked.

I like the discussion. I hope it isn't misconstrued as preaching cause I'm not that either.

[Nixit]

Yeah, I'm just brainstorming here.

[Schme]

Many many people died for things they knew where lies. Countless people.

But personally, I know that I would gladly risk dying to obtain power, for example, the power that comes with people regarding you as a devine messenger.

I've taken that risk before.