The youngest person held by the US in the 'name of security'

[Stan]

It's the American way to spell it!

I think that spelling comes from Dunkin' Donuts, which consequently, I've had in Tokyo, Sao Paolo, Amsterdam (I think) and London!

[Yo_Yo]

Thats how we spell em around here sister >.>;;

Or at least thats how they spell it at Jolly good donuts.

[Yo_Yo]

And if you don't start spelling them the way we do, then its to war we go.

[formerly known as hf]

Yeah, there's Dunkin' Donuts in London - and war for spelling? Seems like a better reason than most at the moment...

I'd fight for it...

[Doodle_Jack]

I love Google:

America war = 55.200.000 hits
America peace = 26.700.000 hits

Oh, and www.googlism.com also gives a few nice results:
(selection)

america is in a military mood
america is not pleased
america is not a hamburger
america is not winning the war
america is starting a new crusade
america is dead
america is not a democracy
america is dangerously
america is dying slowly
america is now a tiger
america is hated
america is eating healthier
america is cashing in
america is a racist nation
america is not innocent
america is great because of its people
america is lazy
america is getting skinnier
america is under siege
america is a democracy
america is not a nation 'under god'
america is better
america is out of control
america is mourning" god bless america
america is the oldest
america is #1
america is letting aids become an epidemic of the young
america is a pluralistic ethnic and racial democracy
america is making enemies of even its friends
america is one nation under a constitution
america is the solution
america is hope and freedom
america is back to normal
america is good for the world
america is worth defending
america is getting a bad name
america is a threat to world
america is burning
america is indeed subverting the middle east
america is at war
america is not innocent
america is falling into an illuminati trap

A nice illustration of the controversy around America, don't you say?

[InsaneIrony]

If you haven't noticed, most, if not all of the countries America has stomped in to 'help' or 'fix', usually ends up getting screwed over by America.
I'll state the example of the Philippines, only because I know this example best.
During the Spanish-American war, Filipinos were already fighting the Spanish for independance. Americans came to help, but once they were given the Philippine territories, they decided to keep the Philippines as a territory 'for its own good'. Because of that, any good changes that would have occured, didn't. Filipinos who had once fought alongside America suddenly had to fight America for their freedom. But they lost. Fifty years later, they were finally granted their freedom, and the Philippines has had corrupt officials ever since. The country has remained in poverty, even with America's 'help' for over a century. Back around the Spanish American War, the Philippines would have been able to govern themselves, regardless of what America might have thought. The people had been riled up, they had spirit for their country, and any corrupt leaders back then would have not been tolerated, especially with the price of lives the war against Spain had cost. America 'modernised' the Philippines. Their technology level seen in daily life almost resembles Cantr! People on bike carts, people in rickety old jeepneys, people in new cars... Beggars in the streets and corruption everywhere in the government...
America has made numerous bad decisions while dealing with weaker countries that it controlled. It stepped on the Philippines when the country had the best chance of growing in the right direction, and now all that remain are weeds of corruption and vice. Do you know how much culture has been lost due to the 'americanisation' of some countries and peoples? So much is missing because it has been replaced with american-style movies or fashions or customs.

Do you know how many corrupt leaders America has helped into office? Do you know how many innocent civilians have been turned into victims because of America's foolish and arrogant assumptions?
And do you know how often America has simply, screwed up, in 'trying to help lesser nations'?
Its outrageous that after so many looming failures which still have resounding effects in the events of today, that America still has the... nerve to meddle in the affairs of other countries!
Hear Iraq? They want American soldiers to leave. Its history repeating itself, and America the giant is just turning a deaf ear to people who want to rule themselves. If america continues to stay there, anti-american sentiment may grow as they become seen as more of 'vigilant' occupiers than liberators. America is overstepping its bounds. Again.

[Yo_Yo]

So... we made a few mistakes? You're acting as if no one has but us. Honestly, the whole of Europe tend to treat us like some bastard kid that just happens to be a part of the family.

We didn't want to help people like we are today in the early 1900's. We wanted to be Isolationists, but the lot of you complained and said you wanted us there. Now that we came and did our bit, you want us to butt out again.

It seems all you bunch of snobs want to do is pick at the little things we do wrong. You're worse then the media. Only reporting what we do badly instead of what we do right.

And we'll leave Iraq alone when they have the strength to stand on thier own two legs. We didn't spend all that money and manpower to free them just so they can throw it away because they had no footing. Whats the record up to now for an Iraq elected president? A month before he gets killed? If we pulled out now, we'd just get blamed for letting them ruin themselves down the line.

And as for the Philipenes (or how ever you spell it) We tried to help them. Corruption always finds a way to get around. It happens everywhere, not just in the places we try and help. And if you have those sentiments Insane, then I honestly don't think we'll be missing you when you get the hell out of the good old US of A.

[formerly known as hf]

You've kinda hit it on the nail there Insane - but Yo_Yo has a point... It's not like the rest of the western world has much more to feel better about... It only seems the the US throw their weight around more because they have more weight - I'm sure european powers would be just as bad if they had a government like the current US government, and the power to go with it...

Also, as nice as it is to vent about these things, posts here, or in any other forum, or chat room, or wherever aren't going to change someone's opinion - I've learnt that the long way round... If you really feel something about it - do the little things you can - sign pettitions, attend rallies, write to MPs/politicians, be careful about what you buy and how you shop, spread the word, but in a non-jugemental way - responses are much more likely to come from simply letting people know, and letting them ignore it, or shrug it off if they want to - 'we hate america' posts just drag people into a debate that won;t never end, and just ends up frustrating everyone involved...

[Stan]

I agree with you. I only butted into this argument because I see all the bashing going on but I never hear any acknowledgement of the good things, not that I'm grovelling for thank you's. I'm simply stating the world is a better place because America exists. I can say that about other places, too. But, I'm bashing non-American places.

I don't care how you spell, them though. I like 'em!

http://www.krispykreme.com/

[Junesun]

Here's a list of all countries that have been bombed by the USA since the end of the second world war up till the millenium:

China 1945-46
Korea 1950-53
China 1950-53
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-60
Guatemala 1960
Congo 1964
Peru 1965
Laos 1964-73
Vietnam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Guatemala 1967-69
Grenada 1983
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1980s
Nicaragua 1980s
Panama 1989
Iraq 1991-99
Sudan 1998
Afghanistan 1998
Yugoslavia 1999

Prize question: in how many of those has the result of these bombings been the election of a democratic government that respects Human Rights? Choose one of the following answers:

(a) 0
(b) zero
(c) none
(d) not one
(e) a whole number between -1 and +1

I'm not trying to bash America for the fun of it, I'm quite aware that there are many Americans who never supported those actions and others that believed or still believe they were to the good of everybody. However, with results like these, you have to ask yourself a) whether the administration was actually serious about improving the conditions in those countries b) if they were, what they did wrong or whether such interventions are actually able to achieve their goal. Continuing as before will most probably lead to the same results as before.

[Missy]

Exactly. Kind of makes you wonder why our schools tell us to pay attention in history class because "history repeats itself and you need to learn from your mistakes." I just wonder, have we learned anything?
Apparantly not.



OT: I watched a show on PBS about two or three days ago about the camps we have the "combatants" in. If you can consider them all combatants. It discussed how none of the people held have a right to trial of course, then how about a year ago or so, they have begun to allow the prisoners a review. Unfortunatelly the review panel is selected individuals from our military, which doesn't offer much hope for people to be released. Some do get released they stated. However, there's no chance to appeal. It's our "militarys' word over the prisoners and the outcome is our say. The prisoner doesn't get representation for the review as I understood it. It told, when they were rebuilding the base in gitmo, that they wanted it built livable but uncomfortable. It looks much like a prison. Theres a seperate area for those that are considered high on the list for being captured. (Kind of like a prison in the US, where we'd hold murderers compared to a person charged with theft.) All of these people should be released at some point, but at the end of the program, it leads yout o believe the type of doors on the prison were made in such a way because there is no intention of releasing them, ever. Yet a majority of these people are non-combatants even.

So, would we hear about the 11 year old? Possibly. News travels. Even if slowly.

Though I don't think a prison camp is the place for a child who has been misled by his/her terrorist family. He/she belongs in school and a setting where he/she can reclaim their childhood rather than learning about war and his fellow country mens faults, and that school regardless if away from home should be as natural as would be if he weren't "prisoner," as possible.

[Schme]

Who knows if we would have heard about it? But you're not telling us the reason this kid is there. Telling half the story is as bad as not telling it at all.

That's very true.

But it only applies if you in fact know the whole story and are withholding parts so as to swing the story one way.

And, America doesn't suck. In fact, America has lead the world in freedom and personal choice for 230 years.

I know for a fact that alot of the blacks and apachees are in full agreement with that.

Let's be carefull with what we say, now.

[Nixit]

If you haven't noticed, most, if not all of the countries America has stomped in to 'help' or 'fix', usually ends up getting screwed over by America.
I'll state the example of the Philippines, only because I know this example best.
During the Spanish-American war, Filipinos were already fighting the Spanish for independance. Americans came to help, but once they were given the Philippine territories, they decided to keep the Philippines as a territory 'for its own good'. Because of that, any good changes that would have occured, didn't. Filipinos who had once fought alongside America suddenly had to fight America for their freedom. But they lost. Fifty years later, they were finally granted their freedom, and the Philippines has had corrupt officials ever since. The country has remained in poverty, even with America's 'help' for over a century. Back around the Spanish American War, the Philippines would have been able to govern themselves, regardless of what America might have thought. The people had been riled up, they had spirit for their country, and any corrupt leaders back then would have not been tolerated, especially with the price of lives the war against Spain had cost. America 'modernised' the Philippines. Their technology level seen in daily life almost resembles Cantr! People on bike carts, people in rickety old jeepneys, people in new cars... Beggars in the streets and corruption everywhere in the government...
America has made numerous bad decisions while dealing with weaker countries that it controlled. It stepped on the Philippines when the country had the best chance of growing in the right direction, and now all that remain are weeds of corruption and vice. Do you know how much culture has been lost due to the 'americanisation' of some countries and peoples? So much is missing because it has been replaced with american-style movies or fashions or customs.

Do you know how many corrupt leaders America has helped into office? Do you know how many innocent civilians have been turned into victims because of America's foolish and arrogant assumptions?
And do you know how often America has simply, screwed up, in 'trying to help lesser nations'?
Its outrageous that after so many looming failures which still have resounding effects in the events of today, that America still has the... nerve to meddle in the affairs of other countries!
Hear Iraq? They want American soldiers to leave. Its history repeating itself, and America the giant is just turning a deaf ear to people who want to rule themselves. If america continues to stay there, anti-american sentiment may grow as they become seen as more of 'vigilant' occupiers than liberators. America is overstepping its bounds. Again.

Alright. It was either us controling them, or Germany. Take your pick.

[Nixit]

Who knows if we would have heard about it? But you're not telling us the reason this kid is there. Telling half the story is as bad as not telling it at all.

That's very true.

But it only applies if you in fact know the whole story and are withholding parts so as to swing the story one way.

And, America doesn't suck. In fact, America has lead the world in freedom and personal choice for 230 years.

I know for a fact that alot of the blacks and apachees are in full agreement with that.

Let's be carefull with what we say, now.

Your talking about slavery, then? Ah yes, we were the only ones with slavery...

Now, I'm not saying that freedom was great in America back then, but I doubt it was much better anywhere else.

[Schme]

Oh, yes, the Germans are coming, the Germans are coming!

Your saying, Nixit, that the Germans would have sent there navy past the greatest navy in the world, who was at the time hostile (Britain's) to either around africa, past British controlled India, (not to mention Bengladesh and Pakistan, aswell as a good deal of Yemen) around Burma (British) Thailand, past Indonesia, and to the Philipines, or past Britain, down along Canada (Britain) past the United States, past Cuba, down central America, past Brazil, down around Argentina, up along Chile, and across the Pacific Ocean to the Philipines? Is that what your saying?

They would have sent AN INVASION ARMY to the Philipines, while at war on several fronts? And then attacked a territory controled by the United States?

Like hell.


Perhaps you should think that through again, my friend.