Bronze Age...Not.

[Nick]

Uh, why are you saying that it's West who's standing fast?
He's not even on the RD.

And no offense West and RKL, but everyone should ignore everything you guys say for a while.
Someone is messing with your accounts.
Something VERY fishy is going on.

[Solfius]

I was wondering about that east and west thing...

[west]

Yes, well. Can't please everyone.

Bah, I'm ambivalent towards the phosphorus thing.

[The Industriallist]

This is going back to the discussion, that we could name all resources, objects, and whatever, gibberish words just so that they don't reflect real life. Ie: Potatoes become "Guatrafin" or something. We'd all have no idea what the hell it's supposed to be, so how could we say "This Guatrafin looks brown, round, and edible!" - We couldn't (Unless there were descriptions, but let's not go there! )

So...this is a good theory for the game. I might even think it was a better one (with or without descriptions). But it seems pretty clear that it isn't actually the one that is actually being followed by cantr.

If Bronze does or does not need phosphorus isn't the matter at hand. The fact is, Steel is hard to acquire. We're making tools that will be as efficient as these steel tools (Untill tool efficiency can be defined, anyway). However, we can not make it easy.

Think about it. If a Sabre requires Steel, then all of a sudden, we give you a Sabre made of Bronze, that does the SAME damage, why the hell would we make Bronze EASY to get? All of a sudden, you'll see all these Bronze Sabres cropping up, unbalancing the game terribly! We can't make acquiring Bronze EASY, nor can we make it HARD, due to the fact that it's less efficient than Steel (And will simulate such when that is implemented). Therefore, the addition of a new resource for its creation boosts the difficulty of creating Bronze.

Well, why would you go make a bronze sabre just as good as a steel sabre? Both the balance point and the realism point say it shouldn't be...

As a side note...I don't think a bronze rabier is possible IRL...

Now, the point about all those metalworking tools that require iron or bronze now might be good...at least, so long as deterioration is effectively not in the game...

And on ANOTHER note. It is completly unknown to me if phosphorus will be going on only new lands, or existing lands as well. I'm HOPING for existing ones, and I'm sure we'll fight for that. However, if it goes on new lands only, you STILL have no reason to complain. Why? Chances are, on those new islands, Steel will be impossible to make (Exactly how on existing islands, Bronze would be impossible. Unless there were sea trade, of course) - So, this would help to give some form of VARIETY to the game.

Although I stated earlier that Cantr doesn't need to reflect Real Life, I'm going to use Real Life for an example. When the human race evolved, BEFORE the Mayflower went from Europe to the North America, what technological stage was North American Natives at? Stone Age, practically. Europe had steam boats, cannons, musketeers, whatever. North America had axes, primitive swords, etc. By only allowing Bronze in one area, and only Steel in another, it simulates the fact that the world isn't always advancing at the same time, which is something that has been very much lacking in Cantr.

That isn't even remotely the same thing as being incapable of ever making such things...and there's no technology in all of cantr. Not a bit.

I can't really see how making one area irrecoverably unable to get the best equipment is supposed to be a good thing...though it doesn't much matter since no one will be spawning there until steel-using colonists arrive.

Surely, you can demand that Bronze sucks and should be removed, but honestly, if phosphorus is placed on only new lands, or existing lands as well, Bronze is only giving BENIFITS to Cantr. Maybe not to your characters, but to Cantr.

That's not necessarily true. It's clearly good for no benefits if it's dropped in the uninhabited world only. If it's not...we'll just have to see.

[Anthony Roberts]

Well, why would you go make a bronze sabre just as good as a steel sabre? Both the balance point and the realism point say it shouldn't be...

As I had stated...

We're making tools that will be as efficient as these steel tools (Untill tool efficiency can be defined, anyway).

And I was using a sabre as a mere example, because everyone is familiar with it.

I can't really see how making one area irrecoverably unable to get the best equipment is supposed to be a good thing...though it doesn't much matter since no one will be spawning there until steel-using colonists arrive.

Everyone had to start out somewhere. Not always will a person spawn just because it was visited or has a present population. It could be entirely possible that a few newspawns are flung into this new land, that may or may not exist with the materials for bronze.

Now, the point about all those metalworking tools that require iron or bronze now might be good...at least, so long as deterioration is effectively not in the game...

Although deteroriation is something I actively dispise, it's something we all have to live with, and something Cantr very much needs.

[The Sociologist]

Well, why would you go make a bronze sabre just as good as a steel sabre? Both the balance point and the realism point say it shouldn't be...

As I had stated...

We're making tools that will be as efficient as these steel tools (Untill tool efficiency can be defined, anyway).

And I was using a sabre as a mere example, because everyone is familiar with it.

A sabre is not a tool. This is a nonsequitur.

It could be entirely possible that a few newspawns are flung into this new land...

The current active population of the Xiria region is about 3-4 people per town. And it's taken me half a year of intense effort to get the population of a town in the Akypor forests to a level much above that. Why this obsession with "new land"?

We don't need "new land". It can all of it sink into the sea as far as I'm concerned.

[Anthony Roberts]

It's needed, as there are many, MANY sailors, looking for new lands. If new places aren't created, they'll get bored.

Or lost.

Or fall of the edge of the map...

...Assuming one exists.

Point being, they're needed. Shush.

[Lumin]

Why not just make bronze tools deteriorate faster? If that's the case, then it doens't matter that they're just as effective while still new. If they had to be replaced more often then it would balance out the fact that they're easier to make.

[Solfius]

Lumin, that's what I thought would happen. I am perplexed as to why it isn't hapenning thus

[The Industriallist]

Now, the point about all those metalworking tools that require iron or bronze now might be good...at least, so long as deterioration is effectively not in the game...

Although deteroriation is something I actively dispise, it's something we all have to live with, and something Cantr very much needs.

Why not just make bronze tools deteriorate faster? If that's the case, then it doens't matter that they're just as effective while still new. If they had to be replaced more often then it would balance out the fact that they're easier to make.

That was (meant to be) an implication of what saying...so I don't quite understand the response I got...

I would like to point out, though there is no deterioration in cantr! For some rather bad reasons, we're getting endless renewals of durability...so degredation-based balancing doesn't work.

Unless maybe we finaly make this renewal that just happened be the last...

[Solfius]

in that case, I would wait until degredaation was working properly, which was the original case I believe

[The Industriallist]

Well, so far as I know it works fine...some of the numbers are set a bit oddly, but it ought to work.

Basically, because people don't want to loose their stuff, and because the repair function hasn't been made, we've had the system effectively suspended...but appearing to operate.

See degredation reset thread:
http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4301

[Appleide]

Why not just put the sabres and bronze in game AFTER repairing is implemented, then make bronze sabres deteriorate! Arr! its so simple!

[Solfius]

Why not just put the sabres and bronze in game AFTER repairing is implemented, then make bronze sabres deteriorate! Arr! its so simple!

I agree wholeheartedly.

Also, I think we should simply lengthen the amount of time deterioration takes, perhaps 80 days for a bow to degrade would be appropriate, I think, possibly longer.

And then turn on deterioration and let it run normally, I don't think deterioration should be that fast or have that big an impact as it is such a slow process.

[Revanael]

Four years for a primitive bow to degrade? That seems stupidly long, Solf.