Dynamic Naming

[rklenseth]

A system like this will add more depth to the game as well.

One thing that could happen;

Quillanoi names the road from Quillanoi to Lake Village, Quillanoi Highway.

Lake Village names the road, Lake Village Roadway.

People will get confused and then they would most likely demand their governments to do something about. Others would probably see it as both but eventually throught the culture aspect of it may pick up one name and forget the other.

Like someone said, some societies might put up signs to tell people where to go.

Since the road system we have today will become irrelevant when Cantr II 2.0 is done then it might be high time to develop this method because with the grid system there won't really be roads like we know them but directions to go in each direction which might have a road built in that direction, making your travel faster, and since there won't be names for the roads, unless people put up signs, then there will be a whole lot of confusion at that point. A lot more than before because now there may be multiple options to get to a place and since there may be no signs then you may get lost along the way, anyways without a map that doesn't tell you what direction you are going in.

[g1asswa1ker]

g1asswa1ker: Hey you still online
g1asswa1ker: "a man in his twenties"
g1asswa1ker: and you are never really alone we are always here to drive you crazy
BUZZ!!!
g1asswa1ker: OniKaze you still there or just igin me
mekoswarrior: sorry.
mekoswarrior: went out for some coffee o_o;;
g1asswa1ker: Coffee my personal friend too
g1asswa1ker: So as you were saying about dynamic names
mekoswarrior: ^^
mekoswarrior: yah?
g1asswa1ker: I just wanted to kick it up to a faster way of discussing it with you you seem to be interested in it
mekoswarrior: well..
mekoswarrior: I like the dynamic names of things, but there would need to be some kind of description so that you'd know which is which, or maybe for locations, some kind of direction..
g1asswa1ker: why would a default name not be good for this
g1asswa1ker: ok so we are on the same opinion
mekoswarrior: that could work, but it'd have to be so that it'd be identifiable to a certain degree.
mekoswarrior: like for locations...
g1asswa1ker: okies elaborate a little
mekoswarrior: it could be like "a dense forest to the northeast or something.
mekoswarrior: so that way, people could simply describe where they were going and have an idea of it.
g1asswa1ker: actually that is exactly what I was saying
mekoswarrior: yeah..
g1asswa1ker: but generic enough to get lost in
mekoswarrior: and buildings could have a general description but maybe have a sign on them that could be read if you were able to take a closer look at it. Then you could name it either what the sign said or whatever you liked.
g1asswa1ker: ok that is roads
g1asswa1ker: how about locations
mekoswarrior: Yeah, so that maps would need to give directions.
g1asswa1ker: not really
mekoswarrior: well.
g1asswa1ker: if you read a map you should be able to figure it out or get lost
g1asswa1ker: if not you get lost
mekoswarrior: I mean, if the roads didn't have a name, nor locations, the maps would need to say like that such and such location is a something to the northeast or whatever.
mekoswarrior: since as it is, the maps just say the names of the locations.
mekoswarrior: Whereas, it would be a good idea if you had to figure out which road led where.
g1asswa1ker: yes
mekoswarrior: so the roads would have some description of where it led perhaps, or at least a general description of it.
g1asswa1ker: yes and how would that mess up an old map like if I start in cantr city and I hade a map and the people told me where I was why couldn't I figure out how to get to Naron?
mekoswarrior: well you could.
g1asswa1ker: so the map works
mekoswarrior: but the old maps in the new system wouldn't necessarily be too helpful if you didn't know the names of the locations
g1asswa1ker: you just couldn't spawn and be off you would have to ask
mekoswarrior: Yes.
g1asswa1ker: thats what we need
mekoswarrior: that'd be good since it's kind of strange for someone to just heaad off.
g1asswa1ker: yes it is
g1asswa1ker: and gathering charcters would be that much more diffcult
g1asswa1ker: and just knowing where one resource is doesn't mean you could find it with another character right away
mekoswarrior: Basically, there needs to be a balance between making it more difficult to figure out where to go for more realism, and making it so confusing you have no idea where to go.
g1asswa1ker: but the balance is already there
g1asswa1ker: I'm not ask for more realism
mekoswarrior: yeah.
mekoswarrior: Just not knowing the names of places you've never been to is what would help.
g1asswa1ker: just a little more challanging
g1asswa1ker: yeah
mekoswarrior: Then you'd need to figure out where to go rather than just which locations to go to.
g1asswa1ker: and building could change hands and uses that much more easily
g1asswa1ker: exactly
g1asswa1ker: now the resoures and objects would be a bit of a strech but I have an argument there as well
g1asswa1ker: now objects would still have names like default ones like bike and car but by nameing them like people they would be unique to those that know them but default to those who don't
g1asswa1ker: like my car no one knows it my car or the family car but that it's just a car but those that know me or those work with me knows it my car and will id it as such
g1asswa1ker: see what I mean?
mekoswarrior: yeah.
mekoswarrior: I like that idea.
g1asswa1ker: theft would be easier
g1asswa1ker: but if you know the car and not the person then maybe you would ask is that your car?
mekoswarrior: or perhaps you could also have the name written on it somewhere, visible by examining it more closely, like painting the name.
g1asswa1ker: yes but we know jos want's the simple method
mekoswarrior: yeah.
g1asswa1ker: got to remember Jos in all this
mekoswarrior: there should perhaps be a way to add small modifications to things though to make them unique.
mekoswarrior: like how you can get descriptions of people, you should also be able to get descriptions of objects and buildings.
g1asswa1ker: but that would be a compication that I think Jos would not go for but I see your point
mekoswarrior: that would come in handy if they implement wear on tools and such.
g1asswa1ker: yes Liked that idea
g1asswa1ker: a pickaxe should not last a life time
mekoswarrior: Like how "he seems weak and in his thirties" it could also be, "it is a pickaxe. it appears fragile"
mekoswarrior: or something like that.
g1asswa1ker: but I'm aiming for the small battle now and work on Jos for the next level of change needed
mekoswarrior: yesyes ^^
g1asswa1ker: Vicki said that to me long before you did
g1asswa1ker: appearently you see eye to eye with her
mekoswarrior: hmmmmm
g1asswa1ker: wow this is much better to discuss things then the forum but the forum gort this started
g1asswa1ker: got even
mekoswarrior: i like "gort" better ^^
g1asswa1ker: okies so that covers objects resourse I'm not to strong for an argument and I think it's a battle for much much later
g1asswa1ker: LOL it is to laugh
g1asswa1ker: maybe I'll use that for one of my characters
g1asswa1ker: gort MILK
g1asswa1ker: lol
mekoswarrior: XD
g1asswa1ker: any ways
g1asswa1ker: resources would have to have a defualt that changes from time to time with out losing what people who know it already
g1asswa1ker: so if I see x and someone tels me that it is iron then I will always know what iron is
mekoswarrior: yeah.
g1asswa1ker: but tomorrow a new spawn shows up and he sees L so he never seen it before
mekoswarrior: it'd be useful if you could identify the components of an item though.
g1asswa1ker: and so if I spawn a new char then I would see L and not know what the heck it is either
mekoswarrior: i think there should be a default of some source, like, it is a hard substance or something..
g1asswa1ker: thats another thing I never really got why cant you adapt tools for the resourses of a region
mekoswarrior: like gold, "it is a malleable yellow substance"
g1asswa1ker: hey thats an idea never though of it that way
mekoswarrior: yeah.
mekoswarrior: it would be rather difficult to implement adaptation though.
mekoswarrior: since some materials are better for certain purposes than other.
mekoswarrior: so you could make an axe out of stone, iron or steel, but the steel one would most likely be the best.
g1asswa1ker: yes it would and as I said a battle to win much later better to throw something small at Jos then something that big he will get mad and throw lightning at us
g1asswa1ker: oh yes that is what I ment
g1asswa1ker: they already started with the stone hammer and the steel one
g1asswa1ker: why not others
mekoswarrior: Jos throwing lightning, that made me laugh for some reason
g1asswa1ker: trust me I could see it
mekoswarrior: that'd be funny if someone made a hammer out of meat.
mekoswarrior: it'd be useless.
mekoswarrior: unless there was a way to freeze it o_o
g1asswa1ker: ok that was funny but a bit to far want to be taken serious
mekoswarrior: yeah.
mekoswarrior: some materials of course would be unuseable for certain tools.
g1asswa1ker: do mind if I post this after?
mekoswarrior: For example, you couldn't very well make a shield out of sand.
mekoswarrior: sure.
g1asswa1ker: glass?
mekoswarrior: go ahead.
mekoswarrior: well.
mekoswarrior: you could make glass out of the sand.
g1asswa1ker: now that would be a sight
mekoswarrior: and make a shield out of the glass.
mekoswarrior: but raw sand wouldn't really work.
g1asswa1ker: yeah
g1asswa1ker: rubber shield
mekoswarrior: or limestone, I think that is in small chips and can't be as usable for many things.
mekoswarrior: ooh.
mekoswarrior: with exceptional protection against slingshots.
mekoswarrior: bounces it right back
g1asswa1ker: yeah
g1asswa1ker: Vicki likes the rubber shield idea
g1asswa1ker: will have to pass that by Jos
g1asswa1ker: atleast the lightning will not get through
mekoswarrior: yes!
g1asswa1ker: Stone trowel
g1asswa1ker: no I don't see that working
mekoswarrior: not really.
g1asswa1ker: but an all wood one would
g1asswa1ker: I don't really see Jos going for a lot of these since it would be way too much time to think of alll the things and then get it all programmed out maybe just a few
mekoswarrior: yeah.
mekoswarrior: but more variation would be better.
g1asswa1ker: of couse it wood
g1asswa1ker: you know I do this all the time with that word
mekoswarrior: like you choose to make a tool, and like how there's a list of different options for, say, making steel, there could be different options for how to make the tool
g1asswa1ker: now that might be easier to get by
g1asswa1ker: he might just think of it long enough to get a start
g1asswa1ker: I don't think I have a strong enough argument on the resouce dynamic naming but the rest I might just pull off if he doesn't either shoot me down right away or ignore it all together
g1asswa1ker: Anything else you might have a brainstorm on?
g1asswa1ker: we seemed to have worked out the dynamic naming thing together very well
mekoswarrior: not at the moment..
g1asswa1ker: any other arguments for or against
g1asswa1ker: that you may see that others will bring up
g1asswa1ker: wow I like this we came up with some great ideas and pointed out some great things I don't get to do this often enough thanks will have to chat more like this laters
g1asswa1ker: for now I'll let you be I need COFFE
g1asswa1ker: E
g1asswa1ker: LOL
mekoswarrior: yay

[creepyguyinblack]

I agree with the basic idea of ediitability, but we'd have to at least have clearer sense of direction between locations if we were to implement this for locations and roads.

[g1asswa1ker]

as it already said general dicription of roads the maps still work you would just have to read them differently

[Oasis]

Yes, but only up to a certain point, Richard. IRL every town you come to has a sign which says it's name, and every street or road you take has a sign, so you don't have to ask people what the name of the street is. And many buildings, public ones, have signs on them stating their purpose, like Police Station, Library. I think Cantr mirrors real life very well right now in that aspect.

I do agree private homes could be dynamic, and perhaps for private businesses, the owner could have a choice whether they wanted people to be able to see their sign. Personally, if I had a char with a store, I would want people to see it without having to ask. It's just better for business.

As for vehicles, boats......no, i still think they shouldn't be dynamic. Theft would be rampant, because no one would know who owned it, or be able to identify it in any way. How would you claim rightful ownership? Just because you have the key? Just think of the Imperial Ships in the Empire. Shouldn't everyone know they belong to the Empire? I think of the boat that Blackbeard stole. I'm sure he probably changed the lock on it. My char would never have seen it before, but it's good they know it belongs to the Empire, that way they know he had to have stolen it.
It just seems right the way it is.

[g1asswa1ker]

theft happens deal with it. As it is theft is already a high point. Locks use them they work. As for the signs use notes as they are indestructable,

I see here the note said there is a store can anyone point out the store for me.

[Meh]

um its called tours and learning your enviroment I moved to norfolk I knew nothing about it I didn't even know that there was like 7 different towns here till I was told and then told where they were and then the roads and the buildings so on and so forth

That's funny. I grew up in VB and never gave the tidewater area being a collection of seperate cities a second thought.

There should be some advantage in knowing the areas if your are spawned there. This might work for names too.

When your spawned the default name for people gets overlaid by the most popular choice of the people at the location when your spawned. You may be "Emperor GW Bush" but if most people think of you as "Emperor Stinky" then that what the kids will call you at first.

To help that along there should be two boxes for naming characters. One being the name and the other being "mental notes". I have most people down as "Santa Claus - delivered toys 456-7, owns sleigh"

[new.vogue.nightmare]

Also, who's to determine who owns a building? Ownership should never be implemented. The sign should be visible by looking more closely at the building/vehicle/etc, and it should be possible to initiate a project to change the sign. This'd make it more possible for vandals to come into existence, and then laws for vandalism. Towns DO have signs, but the government of the town puts the signs up. And there's nothing to stop me physically from destroying or defacing the signs. That would be the responsibility of law enforcement.

[g1asswa1ker]

but that takes time just becuase you stick some stone into the ground or wood should not make it show it's name

[Meh]

I voted NO. Why? Well, i agree with the buildings and such. But imagine. You need to go somewhere. A nice person gives you a map. Take the knarft road to knarft forest east. You look around. and dont see any knarft road. So youy ask someone. "knarft"?n Oh, you want to go to "mestbelt"? WEll, you take that road. You see a man in his twenties point to a road. Thats Rheeza's road. And the place it leads to is Neocron. Well, WE call it neocron. Back in what we call "Joe's town" (they call it "uptown" but we think thats ridicoulous) they call it "bent". I'm from what we call "holsten West" some say......

Get the point? CONFUSION!!!!!

Most people will agree on names. There are people who have a birth cetificate saying city of birth "Stalingrad".

[g1asswa1ker]

not in the midevil age

and that is an act of the gov't

[new.vogue.nightmare]

Which, of course, would be another function of a government. To keep track of people and names.

[Meh]

Quillanoi names the road from Quillanoi to Lake Village, Quillanoi Highway.

Lake Village names the road, Lake Village Roadway.

Well if people would use proper names for roads...

There is a IRL road near here called "Westwood Northern".
Guess what it connects? Westwood to Northern (part of the city).
A celar example is one from another town called "Dublin Granville"
Yes. It connect Dublin to Granville.

What about stone milemarkers as a road improvement?
That would be a way to get a common naming system in a dynamic framework.

[rklenseth]

Yes, but only up to a certain point, Richard. IRL every town you come to has a sign which says it's name, and every street or road you take has a sign, so you don't have to ask people what the name of the street is. And many buildings, public ones, have signs on them stating their purpose, like Police Station, Library. I think Cantr mirrors real life very well right now in that aspect.

I do agree private homes could be dynamic, and perhaps for private businesses, the owner could have a choice whether they wanted people to be able to see their sign. Personally, if I had a char with a store, I would want people to see it without having to ask. It's just better for business.

As for vehicles, boats......no, i still think they shouldn't be dynamic. Theft would be rampant, because no one would know who owned it, or be able to identify it in any way. How would you claim rightful ownership? Just because you have the key? Just think of the Imperial Ships in the Empire. Shouldn't everyone know they belong to the Empire? I think of the boat that Blackbeard stole. I'm sure he probably changed the lock on it. My char would never have seen it before, but it's good they know it belongs to the Empire, that way they know he had to have stolen it.
It just seems right the way it is.

Personally, I think the signs should be built by the players and not all of sudden appear on built building. And public and private buildings are determined by the characters in the Cantr Society, not by the game's program, so if dynamic naming was implemented then all building would work this way.

About the vehicles, if the people give the boat the proper name when dynamically naming it then it wouldn't matter whether or not someone stole it. Someone would have to hunt the theif and the vehicle down. Presumable, as in real life, that would be someone who knows what it looks like thus probably know it by name. Plus, perhaps you can paint the name on the side of the boat but I think dyes would have to be added to game which should be added anyways for when clothes are implemented so that you can make different color fabrics.

Your whole concept of knowing that Blackbeard stole the boat is wrong. If your character never saw the boat then how would she or he know it was the Empire's and that Blackbeard has stolen it. Plus, you just assume that Blackbeard stole the boat when maybe he didn't. Just because he may have been known as an enemy of the Empire doesn't mean that he stole the Empire's boat because he was in it. Such assumptions can lead to a breaching of the Capital Rule.

Once again, ownership will be dealt in game by character and the societies they set up. Just because a boat has the name Imperial Ship on it doesn't automatically make it the Alexian Empire's ship. Blackbeard stole it and for a while it was his ship and not the Empire's. Even then other societies would have different definitions of ownership of property. Since you are bringing up that names given to object such as buildings and vehicles imply automatically that that is the ownership of the society or person it was named after then I am even more in favor of getting dynamic name going because that is implying that the game is determining the ownership of that object to a character when it should be dealt by characters and societies in game without the help of the programming.

[Meh]

Not that it need to be implemented but...

There is a building with "Westwood Town Hall" engraved on it. There is a smaller sign near one of the doors that says "Westwood Library Annex".

You see there is no "Westwood Town" anymore, it was absorbed by the larger city and the old town hall in not even a library, it is a storage facility for the library down the street.

So mismarked building do happen.
It is intentional in this case. It is a tiny bit of history.

I say the first name of a building is free.
You can choose to cover it up completly but it will always be there underneath.
You can choose not to cover and get a name like "Senate - foremely the Pryrimid of Ramses".
The sign should be made of iron and take time to install.