Skills

[Nick]

In the Yahoo! forum we discussed skills, and Jos seemed to take well to the idea. I'm just wondering how that is coming along, and wondering when/if skills will be implemented, and what types of skills can we expect to come into the game.

[Jos Elkink]

I think this will typically be something to keep secret ... Skills will be hidden skills, and affecting behaviour in a way invisible to players. Hence, I will announce when they are there, but I will not describe which ones there are implemented

[swampthing_bob]

very sneaky Jos . think "invisible" skills are good because then if one person has a skill and then another one sees he will feel left out . I think random people should have skills and the older you are the more likely you are to get a skill because you have lived longer and learned more stuff.

[Solfius]

getting skills depends on how much you do something, how much practice you get etc.

I think randomly starting with different skills is good as well.

Perhaps when you are born you get a small amount of randomly assigned skill points, and in that skill you never go below that level, that would be your natural talent in an area without practice.

[Solfius]

Here's yet another of my old suggestions off the Yahoo! board:

How many of us here know how to mine iron, chop wood, make tools, or dig coal? Not many I'll bet, but we could learn by reading, trial and error, and what we think should work. However, our characters in Cantr know how to do every possible activity, even if they haven't even seen it. Wouldn't it be more realistic if our characters had to learn how to do these things?

Lets say a new character, at 20 years old, knows some rudimentary skills, it's not too hard to collect wood, you just pick it up, the same with stone, and collecting things like pineapples, nuts, and berries is simple. On the other, farming potatoes is more complicated, you have to plant then, then tend them, then harvest them. Again, should our characters know how to dig iron? I haven't the first idea about mining, but our characters do.

How about our characters only know how to collect the resources where they were spawned, and if they encounter a new one they have to learn it.
The learning process would take a while, then they would get the lowest skill level, and would start improving as per the rest of the skill system.

[Pirog]

The use of skills will bring the entire game to a whole new level.

Having some "skill points" from the start and then learning by practicing is a good way...I hope Combat will be a skill to.

Then you should be able to teach and learn from others.
Skilled characters could travel around the world and make a living teaching their knowledge to others.

[swymir]

Maybe working on a project with someone who is more skilled then you will boost your skill a bit. For example a man who has been doing nothing but cutting wood for 30 years and a man who is cutting wood for the first time do a project together. The older man will still get better at cutting wood but you younger man will get a lot better because hes learning from the older man. This would encourage more group projects and not make everyone want to go their own sseperate ways like I see most of the time.

[Solfius]

i lost the original, but what i suggested was that perhaps how to make things, and collect some materials, you needed to either learn or experiment and randomly discover it based on the materials, amount of materials and time spent experimenting.

So, a new char knows only how to collect the resources in their home town, with perhaps some talent points (permanent skill points assigned on spawn, not too many).

To make tools they have to either figure it out themselves using materials and doing a special experiment project, where they may discover a new tool randomly. This depends on what they alread have in their possesion, what they already know to make etc. So if a character knew how to make a hammer, and had a hammer in his inventory, if he experimented with iron he might discover how to make an iron shield, if he had the right amount of iron.

Or

They can be shown how to make the tools by helping someone on a project to make that tool. The char learning doesn't know how to make the tool, so the helping project doesn't help make the tool, but the char helping learns how to make the tool, as in this case the "help" button is more of a "learn with this char" button.

The same could be applied to using machines, buildings, using vehicles, or collecting resources. Trial and Error, or be Instructed

[DYip16]

I was wondering about that... isn't the fact that people know straight off hand how to use the tools and what things are for a breach of the capital rule? Or are skills not included in that?

[Solfius]

it's not a breach as it's part of the game mechanics, so it's a game issue as the players don't have any control over how they know how to use the tools or not

[Rob Maule]

Maybe working on a project with someone who is more skilled then you will boost your skill a bit. For example a man who has been doing nothing but cutting wood for 30 years and a man who is cutting wood for the first time do a project together. The older man will still get better at cutting wood but you younger man will get a lot better because hes learning from the older man. This would encourage more group projects and not make everyone want to go their own sseperate ways like I see most of the time.

Only if there was a limit on how many could work on one project. It wouldn't be fair to train a whole town at once. And skills like fighting would be limited to two.

[Solfius]

Maybe working on a project with someone who is more skilled then you will boost your skill a bit. For example a man who has been doing nothing but cutting wood for 30 years and a man who is cutting wood for the first time do a project together. The older man will still get better at cutting wood but you younger man will get a lot better because hes learning from the older man. This would encourage more group projects and not make everyone want to go their own sseperate ways like I see most of the time.

Only if there was a limit on how many could work on one project. It wouldn't be fair to train a whole town at once. And skills like fighting would be limited to two.

That would have to apply to whereever I posted on learning skills from people as well, which is in this thread

[Meh]

The learning curve for many things should be low.

If you never chooped wood before your not very good at it. {10%?}.

But after a day you get it {100%}.
{unless someone hands you an axe then your at 10% of an axe and think that using your hands is better}

After the first day you only get better a little bit {+1% per day?}

And gradually forget {-1% per day down to 100%}

Combat would be slower to learn at first {10% per day starting a zero}. It would dwindle quciker {-5% per day down to 100%}.

I haven't seen anything that would be like a carrer {+2% per day starting at 10%/ -1% per day}

There would need to be caps or acclerated dwindling at higher numbers...

lose square root of ("percentage" minus 100) per day

so 200% loses 10% per day
181% - 199% loses 9% per day
164% - 180% loses 8% per day
149% - 163% loses 7% per day
136% - 148% loses 6% per day
125% - 135% loses 5% per day
116% - 124% loses 4% per day
109% - 115% loses 3% per day
104% - 108% loses 2% per day
101% - 103% loses 1% per day
0% - 100% loses 0% per day

I'm still leaning on not letting the chracters know exactly how good they are

maybe just

"novice" - less that 100%
"average" - 100%
"skilled" more than 100%

[Solfius]

oh no! figures! maths lessons! *faints from shock*

Apart from going from 10% to 100% in a single day and not getting below 100% again, I think it's good. Certainly the bit about losing skill seems right.

If average is the skill of the average lumberjack, do you think we would be able to pick it up that fast?

I suggest:
Perhaps it'll start at 1% and then rise by 1% every turn, plus your natural talent score for each full day. Then fall by your shifting scale as you said

[Meh]

I think a real lumberjack would take awhile to mater but Cantr folk seem to be people just hacking at trees. Maybe an advanced saw requiring two people to go for a "log" or a large amount of wood would be a slower learning process.