Take out all this new crap.

[Lumin]

Well, I was about to tell YoYo that this is the Suggestions forum, not the Rant and Complain forum, and that irrational demands written in a rude, belligerent tone aren't going to win you any support, but then I read Missy's post, and I guess both "sides" of the issue are pretty much even in that department...

[The Sociologist]

Take a deep breath and ignore the fact you have stat bars. Don't *CENSORED* look at them unless you absolutely have to. In example, when you're attacked. [...] and DONT worry about tired you are except for maybe every two days you need to pull yourself from a project and explain "Damn, I'm tired...I worked a little too hard I guess." Thats when the game will become fun again. [...] Lots of others are playing their chars and here you guys are staring dumbly at your screens.."Did my tiredness move up two bars?" LOL Really!

Missy, with all due respect you have absolutely no right to prescribe to folks how they should play the game and to pour scorn on those who seek to play it a different way.

Imagine this. There's a high-level meeting at General Motors with everyone sitting around trying to figure out how to price their latest model. "But how much does it cost to produce", asks one. They have no idea. $10? $100? Maybe $100,000?

Now of course they've no chance of finding out, because doing so would involve "*CENSORED* looking at the stat bars." And that's not something they would want to demean themselves with. Then they would have to "stare dumbly at their screens" and concern themselves with whether some or other productivity index had moved up or down two bars.

Is that how things work IRL? No! You can bet the folks at GM know precisely how much it costs to produce a car of any given model right down to the nearest cent. And so should this be possible in Cantr.

But please note that I'm not suggesting your every character should involve themselves with such calculations. Indeed, some players may prefer not to have any such "capitalist" characters at all. And yes there's scope also for artists and singers and mapmakers and religious fanatics and disadvantaged people and everything else. But there should also be scope for the would-be CEO of General Motors.

Right now the most interesting thing in the game might well be a kissing contest in Drojf. Something did go horribly wrong with the game. Let's just admit that and move on.

Yo Yo has been here a long time. He has earned his stripes. While I don't entirely agree with his way of putting it, I certainly respect his opinion and believe he has a right to be heard.


CD EDIT: Sociologist, mind your language. Even when quoting. (Revanael)

[The Sociologist]

Also this isn't a game. It's a society simulator.

And it isn't working as a society simulator. Read my post just above this one.

I'm tried of reading these types of threads.

And I'm tired of so many excellent power-players leaving because the game is starting to resemble The Sims instead of a society simulator.

That is the precise point. Oh and demanding that threads should be locked... Hah! Well, when you see that happening on a game forum then you know somthing is wrong.

For the record I'm in the process of terminating 9-11 of my 15 charries, either because they are in areas now rendered hopeless or impossible, or else because their "skills" (...and that's a complete joke) are below acceptable levels.

[Missy]

Take a deep breath and ignore the fact you have stat bars. Don't *CENSORED* look at them unless you absolutely have to. In example, when you're attacked. [...] and DONT worry about tired you are except for maybe every two days you need to pull yourself from a project and explain "Damn, I'm tired...I worked a little too hard I guess." Thats when the game will become fun again. [...] Lots of others are playing their chars and here you guys are staring dumbly at your screens.."Did my tiredness move up two bars?" LOL Really!

Missy, with all due respect you have absolutely no right to prescribe to folks how they should play the game and to pour scorn on those who seek to play it a different way.

It was a suggestion and you don't have to try it. But perhaps it would get you to enjoy the game again if you did! Play how you want, I don't care. But if you're saying the games not fun for you anymore I can't help ya. You're the one that said it wasn't, not me. Im giving you a way to try and make it again. Instead you're still complaining.

CD: Oops, I forgot the one in this quote... (Revanael)

[The Sociologist]

I'm sure one reason why tiredness was implemented, beyond the 'real' factor, is the fact that there used to be 3 men massacres. This is a logical way to resolved the problem of 3 people massacring the whole town, just because they can drag people and never grow tired.

I tend to agree with that, but it went way too far. There is now virtually no possiblity of warfare or piracy at all. Let's face it, without at least the possibility of conflict there is no society simulator.

Has there been a war since the changes? Or at least a war which went beyond "capturing prisoners" as the sole strategy? No. Oh and by the way, why are you guys still obsessed with claymores and stuff? What will you use them for? Hunting racoons?

[...] So please continue working on the changes, and make them work properly...

I'm glad you admit that the changes need to work properly. That is tantamount to saying they do not currently work properly.

[Missy]

I'm sure one reason why tiredness was implemented, beyond the 'real' factor, is the fact that there used to be 3 men massacres. This is a logical way to resolved the problem of 3 people massacring the whole town, just because they can drag people and never grow tired.

I tend to agree with that, but it went way too far. There is now virtually no possiblity of warfare or piracy at all. Let's face it, without at least the possibility of conflict there is no society simulator.

Has there been a war since the changes? Or at least a war which went beyond "capturing prisoners" as the sole strategy? No. Oh and by the way, why are you guys still obsessed with claymores and stuff? What will you use them for? Hunting racoons?

[...] So please continue working on the changes, and make them work properly...

I'm glad you admit that the changes need to work properly. That is tantamount to saying they do not currently work properly.

There was a war, two days after tiredness was implemented in the Puk/Pok Region. No prisoners were taken and one side was successful over the other.

[Spectrus_Wolfus]

I mean I can rant for what seems like ages, so i'll just summon up what I want done. I want cantr back to what it was. Back when you always spawned in a town so you don't start off in a retarded mountain to starve. I hate the whole Hematite thing. You just cut some towns power in half.

it also spread the power to other towns which before had none. what it's not fair that your town isn't all powerful because of a technical advance? tough titties


So... what you're saying is that all towns should be equal? Yeah, that sounds realistic. It's much more realistic to make towns powerhouses rather than to spread out the wealth. With that logic it sounds like you are saying the USA should be as powerful as say Cuba.

And its a society simulator in a fantasy setting. Ready for that key word again? Fantasy.

i never once said all towns should be equal that's just stupid. but instead of a town having the power over everyone else just because they had iron now the power has shifted slightly so that area's with limestone and coal are in a stronger position because your iron ore is useless without them. that means one of a few things has to happen. the iron town goes and conquers the other towns.or they start trading with them and developing some form of trade and diplomacy.

[swymir]

And all thsi time I though The Sims was a simulator as well. Hence the name "The Sims", but I still think that the game is much better the way it is. Cantr doesn't work the way other games work. You can own every item in the game twice-over, but that is not what makes you great. What makes you great (and by that I mean remembered) is being a good roleplayer and interacting with other characters. The only people who are complaining ar ethose who wish to have super characters who own everything and that just isn't possible in this game.

As for the remarks about wars/piracy. There were never that many wars to begin with before tiredness was implemented, but those that there were were generally 2 or 3 people who could wipe out an entire town of 50-60 people just because they were better armed. It is still possible to have an effective war campaign you just need to have a lot more people then you used to have. It is now REALISTIC where the rgorup with the larger numbers wins and being propoerly armed is only a minor advantage. The game used to function where you couldn't even hit people and there was complaining when that was introduced. People thought it would "ruin the game". Now people are complaining because it has been toned down a bit. If you are playing Cantr for the right reasons you should see the changes as a great addition.

[Lumin]

The only people who are complaining are those who wish to have super characters who own everything and that just isn't possible in this game.

Ugh. I don't even have time to respond to that statement tonight, except to just say that wow, aren't huge sweeping generalities fun?

I wasn't aware that that was the reason I was complaining, but thanks for clearing that up. And here I just thought it was just because most of the changes were only half-implemented and we still haven't seen the other half yet.

Oh well, now that I know the true reason I'm playing the game I guess all my characters can stop that pesky roleplaying and get on with my <i>real</i> goal of owning every item twice and killing everybody who gets in my way...

[Bowser]

I am just being an instigator here. YoYo likes some changes but not all changes. The PD can't knwo which the people will like and which they won't. Can't please everyone. I stumbled upon a post from YoYo from a while back.....

Now, to not ruin the gaming experience, I won't name this new place created nor the new things on it. I made this Thread just to say thank you to the people Running Cantr. Hopefully I will be around this new place long enough to watch it evolve. Again, I just want to say thanks.

To see the actual post, its dated Aug 16, 2003 in a topic named New Place and New Things
http://www.cantr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=268

[kroner]

it warms the heart...

[The Industriallist]

I've got to say, people whining about it being too hard to do anything are running a bit behind. It was, for a bit, pretty near impossible to work effectively. Then assorted fixes came through, and now...every productively inclined character I have is doing quite well at it, thank you.

As for wars...I admit I haven't run any, but they seem entirely possible. Extremely defender-biased, perhaps, but winnable either way. It's just that you've got to bring enough people and do it right. Piracy is actually easier now, not harder. You can have a cot on your ship...and no one heals on their own..so you can raid again and again to wear them down. Or land a strike on some poor exhausted and defenseless target.

I don't think tiredness is such a big improvement, really, but at this point I would say that it hasn't made things worse.

[Revanael]

CD:
Mind your language, Missy, Sociologist. And people, this forum is not for ranting about the recent additions to the game. If you have to rant, please do so outside the forums. If you want something changed, ranting tends to get no favourable response.
(Revanael)

(oh, and please don't make me notice these things when I'm trying to get ready to go out!)

[The Sociologist]

I've got to say, people whining about it being too hard to do anything are running a bit behind. It was, for a bit, pretty near impossible to work effectively. Then assorted fixes came through, and now...every productively inclined character I have is doing quite well at it, thank you.

I agree that basic factory-work and resource-gathering is now fixed, though in the slightly peculiar way I pointed out in another thread. But have any of your characters tried using tools? Chopping wood with an axe adds an additional 17% tiredness in the first day, for example, though this decelerates in subsequent days. This additional amount is not covered by the daily "tiredness reset". So you gain 2% tiredness in the first day from collecting and an extra 17% from using a tool.

Why do you think that is? Care to comment? Kill off MWS inc and all other filthy capitalists? Long live grotty old feudal lords sleeping in their castles with their stockpiles of rotting crossbows? Is that the idea?

As for wars...I admit I haven't run any, but they seem entirely possible. Extremely defender-biased, perhaps, but winnable either way. It's just that you've got to bring enough people and do it right.

Interesting theory. Has anyone encountered a recent example? (I'm not talking about wars already started when tiredness hit, and where everyone ran home and slept for ten years.)

Piracy is actually easier now, not harder. You can have a cot on your ship...and no one heals on their own..so you can raid again and again to wear them down. Or land a strike on some poor exhausted and defenseless target.

Interesting theory. A recent example of a successful pirate, please?

I don't think tiredness is such a big improvement, really, but at this point I would say that it hasn't made things worse.

Well my capitalist characters have no clue what to do now. Should they throw away their tools? Should they adjust their pricing documents along the lines that nobody will ever be using tools again? Or is this just a temporary bug that will be fixed by the weekend? A lot of work went into all those documents.

All I'm asking is that Programming have the basic decency to reply to the issues that have been raised. Is it a bug or a new philosophy?

[The Sociologist]

What makes you great (and by that I mean remembered) is being a good roleplayer and interacting with other characters.

So the kissing contest in Drojf is the path to greatness? Ah, at last I've finally got it. This is a Hollywood simulator! Thanks so much for informing us!

The only people who are complaining are those who wish to have super characters who own everything and that just isn't possible in this game.

Sorry laddie, but that argument doesn't work. Your idea of "society" seems to be lying on a beach in California where the sun (almost) always shines. And so long as daddy's allowance covers one new pair of surfer trunks a year, then everything's cool, dude. (...God, I hate that word)

So now you have gravitating towards the major towns a whole menagerie of mad prophets and religious fanatics and... basically a load of nonsense. Please bear in mind that all major religions were established at the point of a sword. For Christianity it was Constantine, for Islam the great Arab expansion, for Hinduism the Aryan conquest. Same thing applies to all major cultures.

So yes, you need roleplay, but you also need accumulation of wealth and exercise of power. And without all of these operating in some kind of balance, you have no society. And what I'm saying is that in Cantr the balance was destroyed.

It is now REALISTIC where the group with the larger numbers wins and being properly armed is only a minor advantage.

So the US should have invaded Iraq with precisely how many million troops? Britain should have colonized India with precisely how many million troops? Alexander the Great should have invaded Persia with precisely how many million troops?

Being properly armed is only a minor advantage? Realistic? You don't have the foggiest idea what you are talking about.