Other Resting objects

[Agar]

Currently there is a handful of objects in the game you can rest on. I'd like to see some more, both better and worse than the current ones.

Hammock - Slightly less rest than a cot. Doesn't use a lot of string. It's a pain to make all the machines and string yourself, but someone with the machines could whip a hammock out in a few days with out any elusive fur.

Feather Bed - Should be one of the best nights rest in the game. Lots of Feathers (obviously) big wood frame, iron for nails, cloth for the mattress, and maybe some silk curtains just to be mean. Hammer, carving knife (for decoritve touches), needle, scissors, planer, whatever else you feel warrants a luxuary bed.

Rocking Chair - More wood and time than a chair. A bit more rest than a chair.

Bench - Chair for several people. More wood, same rest.

[wichita]

sleeping bags

would be a bed you could carry with you,
you won't have to wait in line at the public cot,
it will be there in the middle of nowhere

what to make it with: cotton cloth, fur (for lining), needle

[Nixit]

There is a rocking chair.

[The Sociologist]

Currently there is a handful of objects in the game you can rest on. I'd like to see some more, both better and worse than the current ones.

Hammock - Slightly less rest than a cot. Doesn't use a lot of string. It's a pain to make all the machines and string yourself, but someone with the machines could whip a hammock out in a few days with out any elusive fur.

A hammock would use canvas as well as string, surely? Canvas is in effect hemp cloth.

Feather Bed - Should be one of the best nights rest in the game. Lots of Feathers (obviously) big wood frame, iron for nails, cloth for the mattress, and maybe some silk curtains just to be mean. Hammer, carving knife (for decoritve touches), needle, scissors, planer, whatever else you feel warrants a luxuary bed.

Excellent idea. And frankly an obvious one that they should have thought of first of all. I don't know what this mania is for cotton in everything.

Rocking Chair - More wood and time than a chair. A bit more rest than a chair.

I believe one already exists, but uses less.

Bench - Chair for several people. More wood, same rest.

Probably a programming issue...

My suggestions: leather couch, a simpler mattress of hide and feathers, etc. Currently, whoever set up the furniture was obsessed with cotton, just like whoever set up the blade weapons was obsessed with salt and leather.

[kroner]

i want the ground!!!
since my topic was so rudely locked... *pouts*

[Anthony Roberts]

i want the ground!!!
since my topic was so rudely locked... *pouts*

I argued points about why sleeping on the ground should be permitted.

It was shot down, for several reasons. But I won't get into it.

As for a bench, it's doable with current code, no programming issues, and a good idea. However, should it only be constructed outside?

The sleeping bag is what will be an issue. I don't know if you'd have to drop it, use it, then pick it up - but if you did that, someone could take it WHILE you're using it, ya know? If instead you use it while in your inventory, you might hand it to someone else, so they can use it, and they hand it to someone else, etc. Then you have unlimited beds, because I don't believe there's a "check" to ensure you still possess or are on the furniture item (Since none can be picked up, and none can be held, there's no POINT for a check.)

Feather Bed is a good idea, but is sleeping on feathers really more comfortable than cotton? Last I checked, feathers had stems, and they're pretty sharp. Not only that, they may harbour bugs and such (Not that they exist in Cantr.) - plus, the feathers are ticklish AND can cause allergic reactions to some Cantarians! (Err, if they RP it, anyway, I guess.) - Sure, the feathers may be under a sheet of... something... but still. I would think cotton is softer. You don't see clothing being made out of feathers for a reason, and not because it's just cruel to animals! But, this type of bed has (And probably still does) exist in real life, so It'll be taken into consideration, sure.

Rocking Chair does exist, as stated by 50 other people.

Hammock, I dunno. It would require machines to construct, right? To get the materials, I mean, yeah? Sure, someone might have those machines, but even if they do, what's the point? You'd probably get more comfort on a bed than you would on a swinging thing of strings entwined together, and the bed would be so much easier to construct. It's kinda... inefficient. But still, it can be added, just for those people that want 'everything', ya know? Plus, if they DO have the machines, it may be cheaper to make the Hammock over the Bed, anyway.

Oh, and I know someone (else) is going to ask this: You can NOT sleep on the desk, or in the armoire. I've had about three people ask that question. What's wrong with you? Do you sleep on your desk at home? Inside your armoire? Hell, do you sleep in the cabin-trunk? Something is wrong with you. Really. They could be made to allow you to rest, but it just won't make... sense... so I doubt it'll happen. Don't ask.

[formerly known as hf]

I agree - there should be more ways to sleep - I like the idea of a tarnsoprtable sleeping bag... And resting on the ground would be... oh... wait... *goes back to the relevant topic*

*is getting confused with all the tiredness related threads*

Someone should just make one giant tiredness ideas/rants etc. thread - my head hurts...

And sorry kroner - it seemed like you, Nick and myself all had the same though about sleeping on the ground at the same time - unfortunately Nick got there first (just) so I editied my post and locked yours, to make sure there weren't duplicate discussions... all in the name of tidiness...

*looks around the bomb-site that he calls his room* well... at least I can tidy [i[something[/i]

[SekoETC]

I slept an hour on the floor today so why couldn't people sleep on a drawer? Especially when they're really tired. But then again falling from there would not be so nice and I'll just shut up...

[TatteredShoeLace]

Anthony wrote:

You'd probably get more comfort on a bed than you would on a swinging thing of strings entwined together, and the bed would be so much easier to construct. It's kinda... inefficient.

Let me just say I don't post much, but I sure do read alot. AND, I own an amazon canvas hammock, and in my first month in my college dorm preferred it over my bed....so don't knock it if you haven't tried it.

>Insert witty signature here<

[mortaine]

Anthony, in real life, since that seems to be what you're referring to, a down bed (which is what a feather bed really is) is so much more comfortable than cotton, it could break your heart (it breaks my husband's-- I'm allergic so he can't have a feather bed or down comfortable).

Down is also warmer, and lighter-weight. It does a better job of circulating air without being drafty. It's like wool-- one of the natural miracle fibres. Ounce for ounce, down is actually warmer than any other fill you might find, including foams and synthetics.

Cotton, meanwhile, only has its cheap price and light weight going for it. It's terribly absorbant without wicking moisture away, so while it makes for a great towel, it's awful for wearing and trying to stay warm and dry. It's not even a good insulator, because of the moisture problem. Worse, in hot weather, when wearing a cotton shirt, the moisture stays in the shirt instead of drawing away from your body and evaporating, thereby keeping you warmer than if you'd simply gone shirtless. Without an electric dryer or the ability to line-dry with a lot of air circulating around it, cotton stays wet for days and collects mold and mildew rapidly.

As an indoor fabric for clothing, cotton is fine. Outdoors, however, which is where most Cantrians spend their lives, cotton kills.

The main reason cotton is used over down in the real world is that down is so bloody expensive. But in Cantr it is cheaper to obtain feathers than it is to obtain usable cotton (because feathers just need you to kill a few birds, while cotton needs you to build a cotton gin and harvest and process the cotton into fibre). Why on earth would Cantrians go to the trouble to harvest a bunch of cotton to make a bed that's going to be damp and either too hot or too cold all night long, when a bunch of wool or feathers would do the job just as well? I mean, aside from being at the mercy of the programming department, that is.

Cotton isn't commonly used as more than a top layer in mattresses, by the way. Even a futon is usually made of wool, because it's a better insulator.

Which leads to a couple of other suggested additions to resting:

Futon - some wood and a lot of wool, decent amount of resting
reed mat or sleeping pallet - just a bunch of reeds, poor resting rate, but more than just the ground.

After all, pre-industrial and rural societies like most of Cantr, slept on straw pallets for centuries.

And yes, that would be more contributions from the resident handspinner, kthx.

[swymir]

Wow I guess people aren't really familiar with the furniture tab. Futon is already on the list, but requires cotton and not wool like it should. I agree that the furniture page should be mixed up a bit. It seems cotton is in every project.

[Anthony Roberts]

Okay, yes, feathers and junk are better than cotton and junk. In real life.

That's not the point.

In real life, they don't go plucking feathers from real birds and just shove them in a bed, DO THEY? No. There's both manufactured feathers, and real feathers that are cleaned and edited to make them better.

In Cantr, you take the feathers straight from the bird, and would shove it in your bed. Is that comfortable? Okay, hypothetically speaking, what if it is more comfortable? It still has to be balanced. The amount of cotton you could get a day, verses the amount of feathers you could get a day... they're both on two spectrums. That means, the lower number would need less for the furniture (Ie: Let's say you get 550 cotton a day, and 1240 feathers a day. The bed would then need less cotton than it would feathers, for balance purposes).

But even after being balanced that way, it still needs to be balanced in the way of comfort and availability. So the feathers will be more comfortable than the cotton? Okay. Sad thing is, feathers can be acquired in many many many places of the Cantr world. Cotton can not be. So if feathers are to be more comfortable, everyone would make a feather bed because they can, not only because it would be easy to collect the materials, but would regain energy the fastest. Is that fair at all? No, it's not. Not balanced in the least. How would we go about balancing it? Add more feathers! Sure, we could do that. We could keep doing it until the bed requires so many feathers that you couldn't possibily collect them all in one location now, when you could ideally just collect cotton from the ground in unlimited numbers until you had enough.

What am I trying to say? To add a feather bed would be to have you all complain in the end. "I can't get enough feathers for this bed." - well, we can't make things EASY for you. If we did, everything else would have to be easy, for balance reasons, right? Everything is the way it is for a reason (Well, except somethings. Like a file needs 110 grams of wood or so, but a hammer needs 60 or so... someone explain that?) - the point is, adding a feather bed = bad idea. Sorry.

[formerly known as hf]

make a bed that requires cotton - but is tuffed with feathers...

for the [i[really[/i] decadant characters

[The Sociologist]

Okay, yes, feathers and junk are better than cotton and junk. In real life.

That's not the point.

Anthony, sometimes admitting you're wrong is a worthy sign of maturity.

In real life, they don't go plucking feathers from real birds and just shove them in a bed, DO THEY? No. There's both manufactured feathers, and real feathers that are cleaned and edited to make them better.

Real feathers are plucked from birds and cleaned, yes. But everything is cleaned. Cars are painted and washed and polished. Fabrics are dyed and washed. So are boots. Just about everything manufactured goes through finishing processes. None of these are shown in the game because they are trivial.

In Cantr, you take the feathers straight from the bird, and would shove it in your bed. Is that comfortable? Okay, hypothetically speaking, what if it is more comfortable? It still has to be balanced. The amount of cotton you could get a day, verses the amount of feathers you could get a day... they're both on two spectrums. That means, the lower number would need less for the furniture (Ie: Let's say you get 550 cotton a day, and 1240 feathers a day. The bed would then need less cotton than it would feathers, for balance purposes).

This is complete nonsense. Where do people harvest 1240 feathers in a day? Most places I've seen, with the tiredness and everything, an entire town of hunters manages to kill one hawk every two to three days.

But even after being balanced that way, it still needs to be balanced in the way of comfort and availability. So the feathers will be more comfortable than the cotton? Okay. Sad thing is, feathers can be acquired in many many many places of the Cantr world. Cotton can not be. So if feathers are to be more comfortable, everyone would make a feather bed because they can, not only because it would be easy to collect the materials, but would regain energy the fastest. Is that fair at all? No, it's not. Not balanced in the least. How would we go about balancing it? Add more feathers! Sure, we could do that. We could keep doing it until the bed requires so many feathers that you couldn't possibily collect them all in one location now, when you could ideally just collect cotton from the ground in unlimited numbers until you had enough.

Again, this is complete nonsense. There are some parts of Cantr where 3000 grams of fur is lying in buildings that aren't even locked. Other places where people have only a little wood, no iron, and are desperate for 200 grams of fur to make a cot. Same with cotton, same with feathers, same with everything else. That's to be expected. You are viewing the game from possibly the seriously biased viewpoint of a handful of characters.

What am I trying to say? To add a feather bed would be to have you all complain in the end. "I can't get enough feathers for this bed." - well, we can't make things EASY for you. If we did, everything else would have to be easy, for balance reasons, right? Everything is the way it is for a reason [...] - the point is, adding a feather bed = bad idea. Sorry.

Rubbish. Easy? Half the players who were worth anything have resigned from the game this past period. We used to suggest ideas to make the game more difficult for ourselves. Item degradation was a suggestion from the players. Is anyone doing that nowadays? No. Has anyone at all suggested new challenges lately? No. Has anyone shown any interest in anything other than the barest means of survival lately? No.

A feather bed is a very good idea. I suggest you implement it and do it properly. So is a canvas (ie hemp cloth) and string hammock. A futon should have used wool, not cotton. And since when does it need iron... it has no springs. Have you ever seen a futon? Other than an ersatz American thing in a mall? And my own suggestion of a leather couch was a good one. Another good one was the reed mat.

Put it this way. Unless Jos changes everything yet again, resting will become an essential survival feature like food. Everyone will need some basic access to it, like they need access to food. At least, that's my assumption based on events the past few weeks, though it's very hard to distinguish between Jos's actual intentions and the resulting plethora of bugs. Every day that goes by, you have absolutely no idea how tired your characters will be when you log on.

So given the current state of the game, it is really not a good idea to patronize the remaining players in the way you've been doing in this thread.

[Oasis]

I agree with much of what you've said, Socialist, perhaps not in the same tone though.

My problem is that cotton is not readily availabe everywhere, and by that mean it is my understanding that entire islands lack this resource. Which, in my opinion, because resting has now become such an essential part of the game with regards to survival and productivity, I think other areas need to have an alternative to the cotton mattress in a bed. Sure, hemp isn't as soft, but come on........we gotta sleep on something other than a cot.

I would also like to suggest the double bed......for those married couples who may wish to rest together. It was easy to rp two people in a bed before, but now that there is an actual project, one is actually in the bed, the other has to pretend. Just too weird. Please make a double bed. *begs*