To the PD

[Molested.Peach. (cky)]

My account has recently been locked. I was accused of cheating, I was gone for about 5 days the other week and let my friend Justin watch my account so I will stay active.

Well, he's played this game before, and I had two characters in the same town. One had 2 crossbows the other didn’t; he gave one crossbow to my other character.

He said he helped me, but I’ve done this before a while back and didn't know it was a CR breach, the PD person told me, ECT.

I got a message from her when I logged in.
She called me a liar. She says I played dumb.
I thought it was rude, I didn't know what happen until I talked to him. I replied to her about 4 days ago, and she never replied, now, I am a cantr freak, and if I go another day without it, I’m going to shoot myself lol... So, can anyone from the PD help me? I even offered to hand the weapon back.. ect.. But, she never replied. So, if you can help, thank you.

[rklenseth]

On a related note, I don't think any person in the Player's Department has any right to call someone a liar unless they can prove it. I don't know if they gave you proof of that you did lie but if I told a customer at the store I worked at that they lied and I didn't have any evidence to back me up then I can tell you I would be in trouble and possibly looking for a new job the next day. It is bad customer service to accuse anyone of anything without giving proof that they did the thing that you accuse them of.

I don't know what is going on (as I'm not part of the Player's Department) but I do hope that it is being investigated which it should be. My advice to you is *if* you did do this then fess up and apologize and things will most likely be all right and you'll be back to playing as soon as possible. *If* you didn't then the Player's Department should have to prove that you did cheat and you then lied about it and then most likely you will be banned or limited in your Cantr playing. That is as far as I can help you concerning this matter.

[Missy]

I don't see any indication that your account was locked. If you PM me with your account number, or the name on your account, I can better help you.

EDIT
Ah. Yes. I've found the account now. Please expect a messege soon from the person dealing with your case. Keep in mind that people on the PD have lives too, and they're surely not avoiding dealing with the "problem."

[Molested.Peach. (cky)]

The point is, I don't need to lie about this, if I did it, I will admit it. I will not lie about something like this, Also, I am a DIE HARD cantr fan. I've cheated once when I really didn't know it was cheating.. I'm seriously not going to do it again.

[Missy]

I have sent you a message myself, and unlocked your account.

As a side note; Players should remember they're responsible for their accounts. You should make a special note that if you're going to allow others to watch your account, that they wouldn't do anything that would get you and your account into trouble. It's generally asked that if you'll have another person watching your account, that that person doesn't speak for your character except in special cases where they're desperate for food. Otherwise account babysitters should only make certain that the characters being watched are being fed and kept safe, so as to not make a mistake in the way the characters are played/normally played.

[Pirog]

I don't know if they gave you proof of that you did lie but if I told a customer at the store I worked at that they lied and I didn't have any evidence to back me up then I can tell you I would be in trouble and possibly looking for a new job the next day. It is bad customer service to accuse anyone of anything without giving proof that they did the thing that you accuse them of.

Since Cantr is free players aren't customers. It is a privilege to take part in a game like this, so the Cantr staff doesn't owe the players anything.
I get your point about proof, but one can never demand trials and die hard evidence like IRL courts in a game like this...

Handling over expensive objects like crossbows to your other characters is a stupid move and might be taken as cheating, demanding an explanation.

[rklenseth]

I don't know if they gave you proof of that you did lie but if I told a customer at the store I worked at that they lied and I didn't have any evidence to back me up then I can tell you I would be in trouble and possibly looking for a new job the next day. It is bad customer service to accuse anyone of anything without giving proof that they did the thing that you accuse them of.

Since Cantr is free players aren't customers. It is a privilege to take part in a game like this, so the Cantr staff doesn't owe the players anything.
I get your point about proof, but one can never demand trials and die hard evidence like IRL courts in a game like this...

Handling over expensive objects like crossbows to your other characters is a stupid move and might be taken as cheating, demanding an explanation.

Actually not true at all. Cantr may be a free game but that doesn't mean they are not customers. Just because they don't pay for services doesn't mean they aren't customers. They are customers because without them there isn't a Cantr game. It falls under the same idea that in business the people you work with (other employees whether higher or lower in the food chain) are your just as much your customers as the person that pays you for service. I don't take any business classes but at the Summer Camp I work at one of the directors there is a business major and every year he takes us through a course where they teach you this stuff. I'm sure people who are majoring or even taking business classes might be able to explain it better than me. But pretty much the idea is that everyone and anyone that you deal with is your customer. You make a good impression then chances are they will come back to you for the same services or other services. If you make a bad impression than chances are that person will never deal with you again no matter what it is about. And they say usually it takes a long time to earn a long time customer and it takes only a second to lose them.

So we give people bad impressions of Cantr then they won't come back and they will tell many of their friends or people they know that Cantr is a bad game and then we lost those customers long before we earned them.

But the main point is that customers aren't just people that pay for services. We want people to play Cantr and if they do play Cantr they are just as much customers as people who play Everquest. The difference is that we don't have our customers pay.

[The Industriallist]

Regardless of all else, If I understand correctly this was a massive CR breach in fact. It just sounds like it was one that the actual player didn't commit or approve of...

[Jos Elkink]

I largely agree with Richard about players being customers and the PD needing some proof before they make accusations. I would like to emphasise, however, that the PD is pretty much always doing so - they are not just randomly accusing people, but they are investigating cases quite carefully. They will usually not have as solid proof as RL courts, but that is simply impossible, and we also don't want a situation where we cannot remove obviously obnoxious players only because there is some vague flaw in our proof.

I would also like to point out that most games have a much, much easier policy than we have: if you brake the rules, we throw you out, and there is no appeal, and no proof needed. We could easily have established such a rule and it would make our lives and especially that of the PD much easier, but it has never been our approach. We investigate carefully, give players always a chance to explain themselves, and everybody who has been removed has always been given a second chance. That is rather unique for a game like this, I think ...

[Sparkle]

I would also like to point out that most games have a much, much easier policy than we have: if you brake the rules, we throw you out, and there is no appeal, and no proof needed. We could easily have established such a rule and it would make our lives and especially that of the PD much easier, but it has never been our approach. We investigate carefully, give players always a chance to explain themselves, and everybody who has been removed has always been given a second chance. That is rather unique for a game like this, I think ...

This has always been something I liked about this game. I was always so scared to get into trouble that I would do it with out realizing it. I would have hated to just be kicked out of the game with no explanation.

I like second chances, but I still do believe there is a limit to these chances.

Thank goodness that Cantr is unique and takes the time to investigate these cases or we would have people out there with bad cases of withdrawel.

[Pirog]

I think it is great that the policy isn't to throw people out for every rule breach, but I also agree with Sparkle about there must be some limits.

Cantr is a very sensitive game when it comes to cheating, since players who have spent a very long time might lose their characters due to cheating without being able to get them back...

[jeslange]

If a player plans something OOC and says he/she knows it's a CR breach, and then goes on to plan OOC how it can be done without getting caught, then a PD member might assume that that player was aware it was against the CR. If the player tells the PD member he or she had no idea that it was against the CR after being caught, the PD member might make mention of "playing dumb."

If a player says that he or she will not do certain things again, and then very soon does those exact same things again, then a PD member might consider that a lie, unless he or she has a unique defination of what a lie is.

If a PD member says such things to a player, then it is because that player has provided the proof himself or herself.

Cky, I apologise that I left your account locked for almost 2 days after you responded. RL stuff caused me to go out of town on short notice for the weekend, which I hadn't planned on doing, and where I went didn't have internet access. Such situations should be very rare.

[jeslange]

One other note:
A player is responsible for the actions of his/her chars. If you ask someone to watch your account, then it's highly suggested that you make them aware of the CR in general, and also of any particularities of your player status, if you're not supposed to have chars in the same town, etc.

It's also highly recommended that players let the PD know if someone will be watching your account for the player. That way, if a friend happens to break the CR, we won't think it was the player who holds the account.