Why Cantr failed

[jfrizz51423]

Hi everyone, so as you probably know, for the past few years, cantr has gone majorly downhill. The game in the past that used to seem pretty lively, now has so little players. I have been thinking about this game lately and thought I'd share some information of why I think this to be so.

Now before you immediately get hostile with me, you must know that this is still one of my most favorite games ever. This is the most unique and wonderful game I have ever played, and I loved that I could be anyone in the game and play anyone that I wanted to be. I will forever hold this game closely to my my heart, which is also why I feel so strongly that I should share why I think this game failed so much in so many ways that caused it to never grow like I wanted it to, and how maybe, one day, a newer version of this game could be created, and it could be more popular and great than this one ever was.

The first problem I believe this game had was the difficultly to sign up for it. I understand that you people want to avoid trolls, but you cut so many other people off in the process. You have to understand that when it comes to online games, people usually decide if they want to play within the first five minutes of being on the website. It is frustrating when you can't just sign up for your game, but basically have to APPLY to play. I always felt that instead of the game devs trying to convince ME to play, I had to convince THEM that I wanted to play, which is just so wrong. When you sign up for this game, after you apply, you have to wait until they send you an email saying you can play, which in my experience, can take days. Even on the forums, you can't join or even VIEW them if you're not already a player of the game, which I have always found ridiculous. Also the fact that if you don't go onto your account in two weeks that your account freaking deactivates is annoying because sometimes life gets busy and I can't play for a few weeks, but when im ready, I want to be able to go back and get right into it the second I log online. Luckily, I'm a patient person, but most people who use the internet are not.

Also, look, I get that OOC speaking is the most awful crime anyone can commit but people should not get banned or completely shunned from the game just because they don't quite get it like everyone else. I've also seen people get banned from the game for doing things like hitting every person, picking up all the notes on the ground, etc. I get that that's trolling but it's A PART OF THE GAME. One of the reasons I think this game never took off that much and has been declining is because anyone is banned when they don't play the way that people want them to play in their "perfect little world". In other online games, people aren't banned for taking the resources they have available to them, because that's part of the game. If you choose to be an asshole player, that's their free choice. I get that if someone is using cheats or hacks that they should be banned, but simply playing the game should not be a reason.

Another HUGE reason I believe that this game never really took off is the marketing. If you search "cantr" online, there is almost no active news about it. Twitter is used awfully, and no other social media is used. Also, the website.... look, I love the weird quirky green website. I used to love going onto it daily.. but if you want to save this game, the website just needs a huge makeover. When people visit your website, it should draw them in.. and this website has always looked like something that was used in the 1980s. People should go onto the website, and be like WOW, this game looks so cool, so unique, so fun!! I want to play! When I first went onto this website, I was very wary, and I could never get friends to play because they would see the website and the awful look of the overall game and never even give it a chance. And yes, I know this game satisfies a very specific niche of gamers, and you don't want hardcore fighter gamers being drawn to the game, but TRUST me, even if someone goes on a website and it is very aesthetically pleasing, they will read "text based life role playing game" and immediately be repulsed by it if they are not into that. Also, make an app. This is the type of game that people love to go on often during the day, and a nicely designed app would work perfectly with this game!

It's like you guys have always tried to keep this game some secret, like a part of some extremely secret society and don't want new players. Every single thing you do makes it seem like that is your goal. If that's not what you meant to do, I'm sorry I don't mean to offend you, but you seriously need to open your eyes and realize this is why no one plays.

Lastly, the reason this game has failed, and I feel like I will definitely receive the most backlash for this, is the slowness of this game. YES, before you all yell at me, I understand and agree that part of the beauty of this game is the "slowness" of it. I'm not saying to get rid of it, but maybe just do it to a much much less extreme amount. For example, when I want to go to a new town but on foot, it takes me a few DAYS in REAL LIFE!! Yes I get it, it's supposed to be "realistic", but what you need to understand is that this is a game, and people use games to escape the realities of life and have immediate fun. When people go to play a game, they want to accomplish things, do things, complete tasks. And this game makes it take way too freaking long. Want to build a house? Well that will probably take you at least a year in real life to obtain all the materials for that. The reason people don't play your game is because it's just too hard, and that's honestly why there's so little active players. Not only is there no one to talk to on the game (because it's so empty, and everyone goes on at different times), but there is nothing to do when you get on. Most of the time people will just be checking what percentage "farming potatoes" is at because that's all they can do at the moment. It should still be rewarding and hard work, but also fairly quick and easy to build a house and a shop and a life on the game, which it has failed to do.

Anyway, that's my rant. I just wish this game that had so much potential was executed much better than it was and is now. There is no other game quite like this one. If you are all satisfied with the small amount of players that this game has, then I guess ignore this post. But, although I am sure this will never happen, if there is ever going to be a Cantr 3.0, think about these core ideas:
1. Market the game as much as humanly possible. Be active on social media in any way shape or form. Promote your game
2. Do a website makeover. Keep the classic green theme if you want, but it needs a makeover. Make it exciting to go onto and something that draws people in. A more exciting trailer video would do too
3. Create an app for your game for people to use with ease
4. Let anyone join the game as soon as they sign up
5. Don't ban people for trolling unless they are actually hacking or using a cheat
6. Don't ban people who aren't completely perfect with the role playing thing right away and talk OOC sometimes
7. Let anyone join and post on the forums
8. Make it easier for people to achieve things in the game so it is a bit faster paced

Anyway, that's all I have to say. It breaks my heart that Cantr is dying... and I would do anything for it to have a fresh start and to come alive again. Thank you if you've read this far and for reading my post. Feel free to say what you think about my points

[sherman]

A lot of the problem is also caused my domino effect -> less players ->less activity which also means when we get any new players they won't stick due less activity causing even more of this.

I think you got some valid points there

[Tiamo]

You do have some good points here, jfrizz. I think they all have come up on the forum at some point in time before, but as a whole they show a pattern concerning the game's management.

I disagree with you on Cantr having failed. Actually the game has been, in its own way, a real success. Cantr has been running since, i think, 2002. Not many games can say they are running for 15 years straight!
I know Cantr is slowly fading and needs a revamp urgently (you point out some of the issues), however this process is going on for many years now, while Cantr is still running, providing gaming pleasure for its players.

About your last point: the fact that game time and rl time (on a day-by-day-basis) run at the same speed is, in my opinion, one of the key elements that make Cantr unique. It makes the immersive in-game social interaction possible.
This process cannot be sped up. With game time advancing a day every few hours the immersiveness would be gone: players would not be able to keep up with the personal/emotional development of their characters. Gameplay would boil down to just the mechanics; characters would be mere pawns for the player to move around, not the virtual personalities they can be at the moment.
Maybe it is possible to let characters accomplish more per day (travel faster, work faster, cook faster!), but there is a limit to this (accomplishing more MUST be balanced by consuming/perusing things faster). It will definitely not change the slow nature of the game.

[Chris]

The main problem is that Cantr was always a simulation first. Being a game was a distant second on the list of priorities. Some people have fun with simulations, but most people prefer games for fun. Having a character killed while the player is offline is in keeping with a simulation, but it's not fun.

[Joshuamonkey]

The main problem is that Cantr was always a simulation first.

This is true, and is a large reason why Cantr is the way it is in many respects (the other largest reason being limited man-hours). Cantr is a not-for-profit game, and because of that it can create a unique experience.

jfrizz51423, you make a lot of good points. One that stood out to me was the short time before accounts are canceled. We can't have inactive characters live for very long (that makes the game even more slow-paced), but there may be a solution to the account deactivating problem.

By the way, there is a new front page prepared, but Cantr has no full-time employee to put it on there (or any paid employee).

Do you know about the intro server? People can play on this server as soon as they sign up. This was to solve in a reasonable way the problem you addressed about waiting when signing up.

[MonkeyPants4736]

Is it possible for a new account to be immediately/auto accepted, unless some IP check triggers a match to an existing account that has the same IP? I think Greek might be the only one on staff that could set that up, but it doesn't necessarily require a human set of eyes to compare IPs. If there is a match, then that particular application could require a delay in acceptance until a human can have a look.

If there are other things that must be checked, there might similarly be a coded solution. Passing the checks results in immediate playability of the game while only accounts failing one of the various checks needs human oversight.

[Joshuamonkey]

Unfortunately, there isn't a way to program checking accounts without human verification, and it has more to do with IP. However, it may be possible to improve the process significantly using more programming, but I doubt that it would be sufficient to allow automatic acceptance for anyone (past the intro server).

[SekoETC]

But seriously, what harm can a person do in one day? You need established characters to get in a position of power, and time and ships and such to move your characters close enough to cooperate. A new account has two characters and will need to wait an extra day for each new character. It usually takes less than 24 hours to investigate an account, so even if someone was auto-accepted and created multiple accounts just because they can, the accounts would be spaced close together timing-wise and would stand out. Also if there is a way to filter out common proxies, those could be auto-blocked, so the person would have to physically visit different locations with different ip address to register multiple accounts. It takes ages to get anywhere in this game. If somebody was playing multiple accounts, they couldn't play them all at once.

[Moonflame]

We hear you Jfrizz. A lot of what you said equates to "cantr failed because it's a 15 yr old society sim." Yes, travelling and projects take time and that's not the instant gratification of modern gaming. If we increased the speed a bit, at first you would feel good because it's faster than what you are used to, but then it would start to feel like a drag again. So what if we increased the speed a lot - you would have your potatoes in 10 minutes, you make your pie, you go to the next town fast. So yay, then what? You get a load of diamonds and make some jewelry and a house all in 2 days. Then what? Bored. Don't know any other characters. I think it's good to have the project time, because others aren't online 24/7 anyway, and you can embody your character more and think about what they will do. If you sleep for 10 days the town won't have completely different residents, because travel takes time. It's not an action game so it doesn't have that same gratification. It would be bad to advertise it as a game that gives instant gratification, it's not what it is.

Also I saw some thread about cantr dying, and it was from like 2004. It's a constant theme, so I decided to stop trying to find some solution.

[Wolfsong]

The difference between 2004 and now is about a thousand players though.

[Mafia Salad]

I'm not sure it failed, it's just going through it's life cycle.

Cantr entertained me for more hours than WoW, Age of Empires, Harvest Moon, Donkey Kong 64, Fire Emblem, or any other game or game series I've sunk a lot of hours into with the possible exception of Super Smash Brothers.

I've practiced and developed real people and communication skills in this game unlike any other game I've played, and it taught me a surprising bit about human nature. If they shut the game down tomorrow it'd be a major success in my book.

[Rmak]

Where is the fun in pimping my outfit if I finish it all in half an hour ? If this game had the ability to make jewel encrusted codpieces then it would be complete.

[nateflory]

One interesting thought about the "Simulation Failing" is the persistence and stock of the most populated areas.
I have no experience outside the usual "English Isles", but while the RP is best in populated town, it's actually surprisingly difficult to get a character to go through the primitive survival gameplay style lately. Even on Fu, which is easiest to wander off into the wilderness and try to survive... most folks spawn in a well established town.

Also, the really "nasty" parts of society aren't played out as often, with wars and things... potentially due to lower player base, and thus less characters willing to be killed off "before their time". ...

I don't think it failed at ALL, for reasons mentioned above though. It's still my favorite online game, EVER, and I try sending people to it from time to time. but the overall gameplay has changed a bit, over time, and I'm not sure how to change that without a new Island appearing in the sea, or spawning changing, or building deconstruction being possible, and other "drastic" changes.
For now, it's still an awesome game, blending strategy, simulation, and RP. Kudos!

[Genie]

One of the problems I had to face has been making people familiar with Cantr. I tried different methods for brining players from the different language groups and most couldn't pass beyond a short period after spawning. The others felt timid and afraid about this written world like it's a complicated science fiction book, they refused even just keeping one character alive just by feeding him/her time to time.
Another thing is lifeless spawns. It's understandable( I don't exclude myself) to feel detached/depressed about some characters or not having enough time to play all. Not liking an area, a city is normal too and even if the reason is mostly OOC none forces them to stay there forever. I can't understand getting totally silent and sleeping forever after telling a name( Some don't do even that) or speaking only once. Players come to Cantr and leave before their characters have a chance to grow or they can learn about the game dynamics.
However I got lots of benefirs from my Cantr experiences and this helped me with RL business too. I'd like to be able to promote Cantr better if there's a way for that.

[jfrizz51423]

I get what you guys are saying about how the slowness is what makes Cantr, Cantr. I'm just saying, it CAN take literally years (in real life) to establish yourself in this game and it's just too difficult in my opinion. I'm not saying to not have characters have to put in some serious effort to make something of yourself in the game, but just make it slightly less difficult.

Anyway, I still think that is the least significant reason as to why Cantr has failed. All the other reasons I've listed are the biggest ones. It really is just too hard to get started with this game, and there is little to NO effort to attract more players.

And to those of you who say that Cantr hasn't failed, well, in my opinion, it has. When I go on to play, and I get one response from one person a day, in my opinion that means it has failed. I just believe this game is such a one of a kind that if the changes I say were made, you guys wouldn't be saying "well, right now we have a few hundred active players." You'd say, "right now, we have a few thousand active players!!" Which is how it should be! So in my opinion, this game HAS failed, but not because it's not an amazing game, but because this game failed to attract people to it in the first place. I've heard a lot of people say that you can have a genius idea, but if it's not marketed correctly, it's basically a useless idea that will get lost with all the other ones.