Less violence

[Meh]

Did the invaders have the upper hand? It would be more mysterous if being newspawned that any other choice was made then to side with the winning side or the first side to speak or the first side to speak well.

[rklenseth]

The Mongols were bloodthirsty though they did what they did for conquest not killing. The barbarian Northern Europeans destroyed Rome because first they felt threatened by Rome and second they wanted the wealth of Rome for themselves.

Spoken as a true authortarian.

So should I take it that Romans were free wheeling flower giving bringers of peace?

No. They were a society that only had the will to survive for one to three generatations. Their further lingering was pure luck and held back development. It is regrettable that their poor example of legal code code not be purged forever for it works no better now than it did then.

As for the Mongols, what was attached to the land was not considered human. A narrow and incorrect view. The reverse bias that says that the UN does not recognize nomadic tribes as a nation. The Laplanders to not have a "language of power" according to the EU. Native Americans should just "blend in" with the rest of the USA.

Actually I agree with what the Northern Europeans did to the Roman Empire. Rome was a corrupted place. I'm not sure if you know Rome. Are you talking about after they had become an Empire or before about what you were saying up above? Depending on which one, I would either have to agree or disagree. Yes, it is believed that Caesar's burning of the Great Library of Alexandria put us back a couple hundred years behind. A lot of knowledge was lost because of that. I'm not sure what you are getting at with the legal codes.

[David]

In response to most of the posts after my post. Yes. Anyone who is in breach of the CR should be dealt with accordingly.

[Alladinsane]

This is an interesting discussion of what violence was and what it is now. There exist some positions in favor of violence and a few against it. You can see also that some of the suggestions here were the germ of the present system. Hitting and dragging was not necessarily the intent of the changes, but it was the adaptation by creative players who still wanted to be able to employ violence in their roleplay. I will pull a few quotes our here to illustrate the thinking and also add a bit of cantr history as well. For those who sometimes visit empty towns that contain 30+ buildings, you can see some of the history that was involved in the naming and fabrication of those buildings.

Maybe a few of our older players would add to it if they so choose. I just know that I am learning a lot and right now, I am only going back to 2003. Necro'ing is fun sometimes!

There has been a lot of discussions about a more stable (and advanced) combat system, but perhaps some kind of limit on the amounts of attacks a single character can make would be good until a system change can be implemented.

Indeed, this should be on the top of the priority list. Within a short period 3 massacres have occured.

People will always die meaningless deaths, and that shouldn't change.

people are forgetting what Cantr is about, its not a traditional RPG or MMOG: its a sociological-poltico-economic research experiment. It should be treated as such by the players, try not to be so attached to your characters.

The killings in Cantr, as I have understood it, are random acts of mass killings just for the sake of killing.

The one suggestion that I would like to make that some sort of stamina, endurance, fatigue, etc... should be added

I get the feeling that it pretty much is a few players in Cantr who only seems to be organizing these massacres out of the sheer fun of destroying the game for outer players.

The post by Thomas Pickert on page 3 is pretty relevant to what PD was going through then, and probably (Have many noticed that I am not PD?) is facing now. How to permit violence but limit it enough that society can be simulated and advanced. viewtopic.php?p=15059#p15059
Anyways, I am not opening a topic, I am reviving one. Have any opinions changed in the dozen plus years since this was first started? It seems from a player motivation perspective, that alot is the same. But mechanics have changed and several of the suggestions from this thread are the current state of the system now. Also, several of the issues plaguing the past still exist... is there a problem with people? Or maybe with the system?
A sincere desire for the future of the game takes suggestions and this thread is proof that some suggestions did become reality. This is the game that we make... but some things, such as particular acts of programming are hard, tedious, and sometimes just not doable. (I am gladly open to correction by anyone more familiar with this than me). Its your game. Can we discuss issues with ad hominem attacks against staff or other players? Generalize and tell us what issues you see that are different from 2003.

*cuts the tape with exaggeratedly large scissors*

[HFrance]

First of all, what has been discussed here should have a very relative value. But it's not what happens. Cantr is a game directed by a group of forum users, not by its players. A minority of players participate in the forum. And a minority of people participating in the forum has theyr representative power respected, since this is an elite club. While not implemented a system internal to the game to hear the opinions of real players and all of them, there will be a majority of people unhappy, whatever direction the development of the game go.

[SekoETC]

Cantr has a poll system, but it's rarely used. There isn't much point in asking people's opinions when there isn't enough manpower to change things.

[HFrance]

Cantr has a poll system, but it's rarely used. There isn't much point in asking people's opinions when there isn't enough manpower to change things.

So no discussion here will be relevant too.

[SekoETC]

We can talk, it's just good to acknowledge it's hardly going to change anything. The current system is sort of balanced, a group of three people can no longer take out a whole town. They can drag away the keyholder though.

[sherman]

And at this point this game really can't sustain massacres, it will just make more people quit which will result less fun for remaining.

Now kinda relating to topic...Like I have said on some other threads some of our problems are purely related to playerbase which we currently have. There's super active ones (minority) and not so active (majority) and the majority here includes players that can play only hour a day or less or more but are still avoiding doing any big things where as our super active ones are ones doing stuff but I suppose they get bored then they end up doing them mostly alone

So in short cantr has really come to be slow paced game and most players seem to be content with just working for town and not searching for big things which I suppose some could say is reason for "stagnation". But that's matter of opinion really, players make game and like in democracy.. we go what majority does or doesn't

[Alladinsane]

No, I harbor scant hope of major changes even though there seems to be near consensus and dissatisfaction with the system as it is now. I was interested in how these predictions came true to a degree and it showed me that, even if forum users really have/had little say, that they can come up with prescient idea's.

What also interested me was the references to certain empires: Alexilad, Cantr city, Alenz hills, Naron... and how they and the names that only exist on notes and buildings had a hand in shaping things. I wish there was more historical information about the rise and fall of these entities and the names responsible in part for both. Its a shame that many notes that used to be in the very location they were dropped are now in the repository of an institution elsewhere...they did not really save history if they can not be taken in context. I admit a certain ignorance to the filing system though and they may be documented well enough that somebody is able to conjure mental images of maps and locations that only exist in the green world.

The relevance of the discussion is a personal judgement for each of us and after a brief nostalgic look for some and additions for others, it will probably resume its place in the dust-bin of the general discussion. But a few glimpses of the past help guide us to a better understanding of the present.

[HFrance]

Oh, I had forgotten that this Public Discussion Forum is just the English Language Players topic... I can only say that we of the Portuguese-speaking community are pleased with the drop in violence since, after being almost completely decimated by the tea drinkers war, we are taking time to rebuild either city.

[Kyriel]

If you want to get off the idea that violence is bad, it should be changed it on a code level. It's disingenuous to leave messages on the front page encouraging people to play pirates and conquerers and then punish them for doing so. Especially if those players are heavily roleplaying and not simply silently murdering people left and right.

[Alladinsane]

Yeah, I think that decimation was universal. I have heard stories of the same thing happening in the PolZ also.

But for EZ that was quite some time ago, I don't know about PortZ; perhaps you could fill in the blanks there.
In the EZ, I think Dory is the most famous "tea" massacre....that was about 6 rl years ago. The rebuilding happened, but the same levels were never achieved again.
I also think one of the most devastating events was the hacking of 2010... a lot of people did not return after that imo.
I was so new and didn't know much about cantr at the time that I decided to give it another chance.

[Alladinsane]

It sounds like you may be talking about a particular case Kyriel.
This is not really the place for that.
If you are personally involved I would suggest that you contact PD.

But welcome to the discussion!
You are a newer player iirc, but if you have any comments or recounts of historical events; I would love to hear them.

[Kyriel]

Of course not. The sentiment of "violence is bad" whilst doing nothing about it code-wise is not a new phenomenon. The fact that not every player that ever has a character commit violence is a horrible person is a statement that should be obvious.