new health system ect...

[Missy]

Second, the Web-based interface makes Cantr II a fairly slow-paced game. Please be patient! It might take you three or four days to walk to the next location. It might take a day or two for the person you're talking to to log in and respond. It's possible that even if you can see 40 people standing in your location when you say something, none of them are there to respond immediately!

[1959 Apache]

So far I can see that any character that hunts for a living is as good as dead.

Hmm... that's odd... so far, the characters I hunted with didn't take a big hit on the tiredness bar. Unless you mean hunting other characters.

Not the tiredness factor, but the severe decrease in damage done. One of my hunting characters would normally do around 35 damage with a fine weapon. Today it was down to 18. This was against whatever animal that didn't die. I don't know about striking other characters, I haven't been called upon to do that today.

What I am saying, is that hunting yields are now cut in half. Not to mention places where fending off animals is key to survival. Those places will become the deserted wastelands with animals proliferating beyond what the inhabitants can respond to. I seem to remember that animal reproduction was a work in progress, and was being looked at very carefully, after the debacle of the wild hoards. If weapons are half as effective, I hope the animals ability to attack and reproduce has been equally cut.

[Molested.Peach. (cky)]

So far I can see that any character that hunts for a living is as good as dead.

Hmm... that's odd... so far, the characters I hunted with didn't take a big hit on the tiredness bar. Unless you mean hunting other characters.

Not the tiredness factor, but the severe decrease in damage done. One of my hunting characters would normally do around 35 damage with a fine weapon. Today it was down to 18. This was against whatever animal that didn't die. I don't know about striking other characters, I haven't been called upon to do that today.

What I am saying, is that hunting yields are now cut in half. Not to mention places where fending off animals is key to survival. Those places will become the deserted wastelands with animals proliferating beyond what the inhabitants can respond to. I seem to remember that animal reproduction was a work in progress, and was being looked at very carefully, after the debacle of the wild hoards. If weapons are half as effective, I hope the animals ability to attack and reproduce has been equally cut.

I agree, I hit an animal with my sabre today, it did only 20 damage, Then I hit it with my crossbow, and that only did 30 damage. I hate it. But I will get use to it. But I mostly agree on the abandoned towns or over run towns. I'm about to go on an expedition to clear out a ton of hostel animals, now I probably am going to die because the weapon hit has been reduced so much.

[Molested.Peach. (cky)]

Also, Apache, look on the bright side, when you steal something it will take them more time to kill you and you might get away in the next town.

[The Sociologist]

Not the tiredness factor, but the severe decrease in damage done. One of my hunting characters would normally do around 35 damage with a fine weapon. Today it was down to 18. This was against whatever animal that didn't die. I don't know about striking other characters, I haven't been called upon to do that today.

I'm afraid it's worse than that at the bottom end. A knife used to do 10 damage, now it seems to do between 1-2 damage. I'd say that with such figures the entire Baaak/Mulof/Zhift area may well be entirely kaputt now.

And I've been attacked by a moose and my wooden shield saved 5% and I suffered 6% damage. Is that usual?
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[The Industriallist]

Second, the Web-based interface makes Cantr II a fairly slow-paced game. Please be patient! It might take you three or four days to walk to the next location. It might take a day or two for the person you're talking to to log in and respond. It's possible that even if you can see 40 people standing in your location when you say something, none of them are there to respond immediately!

The point was that, normally, the smart people start hour-repeat projects. Now no one has a clue what an hour repeat is, or if it changes. There is no hope of getting anything done if this is as bad as it looks...

And if combat doesn't get unmangled the whole thing is over, as far as I'm concerned.

[Pirog]

It's early morning, I'm drunk as hell from a hard night of partying and I log in to find this little present

I haven't played yet, so I can't judge the system...but spontaneously I think it is great! It might need some fine tuning or whatever, but I really like this!

[kroner]

I think the problem is not the increassing complexity, but the fact that the changes are not documented. This always leads to a lot of confusion, especially with the new players. Questions like "Where is my hunting bow ?", "What's with this longbow ?", "Which one is better from all these bows ?" were common after the weapons changes.
Maybe the changes effects should be found IC, but my characters often find this a frustrating experience.
The game should be a social experiment, not a 'figure-out-how-the-game-works' type.

I agree with this. It's silly for game mechanics to be a secret.

[Agar]

It gets worse.

I have a character with full health and food, and I haven't attacked any one or anything, but I'm working slower. I wasn't attacked, all I've done is talk, not even point or travel or even go in a building.

So, does this mean we all slow down untill we "rest"? What the heck do you thing logging off is? It's REST, so our characters should be not getting tired. If my character actually has to NOT WORK to GET WORK DONE, I'm going to be ... very unhappy. Those 200 minutes are precious, and using them to do NOTHING is just robbery.

[Pirog]

Agar>

You would of course have the oppurtunity to let them rest and then log out. You can't see merely logging out as rest if your characters does actual work during the time you aren't playing...

[Antichrist_Online]

The new weapon changes are really silly. They don't reflect the real weapons at all. The only way these would be any good is if firearms were introduced to replace them. But still, 9 damage of a longbow that could kill anything in four shots before is completly stupid.

[Pürkel]

I managed 11 points with a longbow earlier today. It seams that the random factor has increased.

[The Sociologist]

The point was that, normally, the smart people start hour-repeat projects. Now no one has a clue what an hour repeat is, or if it changes. There is no hope of getting anything done if this is as bad as it looks...

I agree, and I've started a poll under Suggestions. While the meters are very nice in many repects, we need to see at least our own exact % effectiveness for projects. That's purely because projects themselves work in a very numerical way.

And if combat doesn't get unmangled the whole thing is over, as far as I'm concerned.

Hang in there for now... though I do admit myself than some of my charries are severely threatened by this.

It's early morning, I'm drunk as hell...

Several of my charries would like to join you, they just haven't figured out how yet. But at least I know how and may well join you shortly.

The new weapon changes are really silly. They don't reflect the real weapons at all. The only way these would be any good is if firearms were introduced to replace them. But still, 9 damage of a longbow that could kill anything in four shots before is completly stupid.

I have mixed feelings. I've seen an entire town taken out by one man. That was unrealistic, no matter how skilled he was, same in the case of some pirate attacks. So overall, fatigue is a good thing in some respects.

My current issue is with forest characters, especially those in areas overrun by animals. I started a poll under Suggestions on that as well.
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[ephiroll]

I have to say that after a day with the new system that I am now solidly against it.

I'm cool with the weapon damage change, I'm cool with the new stats, I'm cool with the fatigue factor, but what I'm NOT cool with is that attacking animals and people cause different amounts of tiredness and it seems that the tiredness caused from attacking another char doesn't decrease in the same way as that caused from hunting. PLUS, attacking with a weapon or with a bare fist cause the SAME amount of fatigue. This system needs serious work, because as it is right now the playabliblity of the game has been destroyed (just as I repeadedly said it would be) by the introduction of artificial limits impossed upon violence.

Cantr is a hair from being nothing more then a text version of the Sims, and if I wanted to play the Sims in any way, shape, form, or fashion then that game wouldn't have been sitting on my shelf gathering dust since two weeks after I bought it.

To be fair I'll give things one month, but as it stands right now I've already decided to quit.

[Anthony Roberts]

The point was that, normally, the smart people start hour-repeat projects. Now no one has a clue what an hour repeat is, or if it changes. There is no hope of getting anything done if this is as bad as it looks...

I agree, and I've started a poll under Suggestions. While the meters are very nice in many repects, we need to see at least our own exact % effectiveness for projects. That's purely because projects themselves work in a very numerical way.

Ewww, I disagree. I hate numerical representation. If people see their health as a number, they'll continue to reflect it as a number. "That horse just hit me for 14 damage! I'm down to 84 percent!" *Cringe*. Sure, it would be NICE to see what that value is, but a percentage bar seems sufficient enough for me.

What I dislike, however, is that health has been removed from the Character Information at the top of each page. Now you have to look to see your health. Sure, you can see the or faces, but that doesn't help you as much as having the health meter on that page. Why? Well, there's only three faces, but there's 100 different values of health, from 1 to 100. A smile can not accurately represent the value 74 and 82 at the same time. You could have the moody face, and only need one hit from a strong weapon to wipe you from the face of the world. (Whatever the Cantr planet is called, which isn't Earth. Which brings me to another, unrelated question. Do we call the ground 'Earth'? We call it earth now, the dirt and soil, because we're on the planet Earth. But what's the Cantr planet called? Cantr? So, we're all standing in cantr? I can dig up cantr? Do you get what I mean? )

Overall, I like the new change. Yes, documentation would be good, and how would this be a CR breach? Look at it this way. You grow up to be 20 years old. In those 20 years, you obviously learn from your parents or caregivers (Or, even out on the street, you learn from others that you interact with) the basics of life. You need to clean yourself to remove dirt. You need to eat to not go hungry. Etc. Sure, okay, it would be a CRB to mention what tools, machines, etc. are needed for that. But can't it be explained what those meters are for? Of course, it's -obvious- what they're for, but this argument isn't just for that. It could be for all additions and changes. Say, for EXAMPLE, animals could suddenly be domesticated. Okay, we won't tell you HOW to do it, but we should at least be told that it's now possible, and what we can do with this improvement to the game. Throwing it at us certinaly doesn't help.

As for fatique. Well. I can't say I have a major problem with it, at the moment, anyway. Everyone seems to hate it, and honestly, I know sooner or later we all will. But it does make the game more realistic. You can't work all day and not get tired. You can't thrust your sword and not get tired. But is must be toned down a bit! Cantr isn't real life, and to reflect it -exactly- would be near-impossible. Fatique is just something that needs to be worked on, obviously, and I'm sure changes will be made (Well, not 100% sure, but with enough complaining...) to keep the game balanced. But I do agree with the arguments, that each new improvement makes it harder for newer characters, and easier for older ones, merely because they've acquired wealth during their life.