Another Open Letter

[EchoMan]

Well, that (me responding) ends here and now unfortunately. I don't have the energy to have to defend against people who dissects every word I write on the forum and throws it back at me out of context, or in words they create for themselves, without regards to the essence of what I have written. A couple of things to consider in my absence:

• Me being here to discuss, should and could have been an opportunity for a constructive debate/discussion.
• Playing Cantr is not a god-given right, it is something the game owner offers to people who play by the rules. The same goes for access to the forum and other services related to the game.
• Change in Cantr is and has always been slow, mostly because everyone working for the game is a volunteer, and doing it in their spare time.

No those were no threats, those were facts.

[EchoMan]

I invite you to give me a better suggestion on how to affect change than joining the staff that we've already established cannot accomodate everyone, and of which not everyone has time for.

• Instead of going to war, go to a discussion of constructive critizism?
• Instead of dissecting everything I type and use selected parts as ammunition, read the entirety in its context, and use it as a base for discussion?

[Crownless]

Again, the BEST way of changing things are to join in and work for that change.

...So you're saying that the only way a player can hope to change anything is by joining the staff?

EDIT:
Asking for clarification purposes since you keep saying you're being misinterpreted.

[Marian]

EchoMan, we all appreciate you taking the time to respond. Reading through the thread I didn't ever get the impression Rebma or iavatus or Ignacius were trying 'stir up shit, to no end', but I can understand things being a little overwhelming because it's something everyone obviously has strong feelings about, and you being the only one on staff stepping up to open a dialogue, after this really very confusing and frustrating situation has gone on for so long already of course means your responses are going to get a lot of scrutiny from people who are already upset. And rightfully upset from the way they've been getting jerked around, but we all know you're not the one responsible for that mess.

If the result of these bans are that there has been less in-game bullying and less evil talk and trolling on the radio, then I'm all for it.

Play by the rules and you have no problem.

And I'd like to thank the admin people for their work.

Hi Majix. Apologies, but you seem confused about the topic, or maybe accidentally posted in the wrong thread.

[Marian]

Oh, and one more thing?

Axiom's petition thread was a long one and there were many well wishers and kind posts about the player and her characters, is there any way it could be returned to the forum? Assuming it still exists somewhere and wasn't just deleted? It was only the last few posts that were considered objectionable and so it doesn't seem fair to the others who wrote in it or to Axiom herself that the entire thread was scrubbed because of that. The specific posts would have been easy enough to edit or remove.

[Alladinsane]

I agree, it doesn't seem fair.

Perhaps we as players should also police each other and not let one or two people make us all suffer.
The axiom thread has some nice posts, but we (as rebma so accurately stated) have 'other things in our lives' where we cannot edit post by post with an undermanned staff. So as a result, the entire community sometimes pays for the actions of a few. Fair? Nope... but its all we have the time to do.
=================

You can ask for as many changes as you want, but if you do not step up to make them, they are not likely to happen. We can only do so much. I beg of you, help us in a way that is substantive.

I once heard a fireman say that there are three types of people who see a burning house.
1. The person who runs away and keeps themselves safe.
2. The 'hero' who runs into that house to see if there are people who can be saved.
3. The person who just stands there and shouts (loudly though!) "Isn't anybody going to do something?".

/analogy-parable
======================

We want some changes too, but if everyone is so 'busy' that they cannot join staff, things take time... even more time when we are understaffed and even more time than that when we are responding to "open letters" rather than doing other duties. Read through this thread again and see how many times responses were demanded. Well, Peter pays Paul and you got the attention you wanted... but it comes at the cost of the actions you demand.

I empathize with you, and you have now TWO staffers who are on this thread. (Well, Echoman may have stepped out).

Thank you all for your continued input on this issue.

[Marian]

I agree, it doesn't seem fair.

Perhaps we as players should also police each other and not let one or two people make us all suffer.
The axiom thread has some nice posts, but we (as rebma so accurately stated) have 'other things in our lives' where we cannot edit post by post with an undermanned staff. So as a result, the entire community sometimes pays for the actions of a few. Fair? Nope... but its all we have the time to do.

We want some changes too, but if everyone is so 'busy' that they cannot join staff, things take time... even more time when we are understaffed and even more time than that when we are responding to "open letters" rather than doing other duties. Read through this thread again and see how many times responses were demanded. Well, Peter pays Paul and you got the attention you wanted... but it comes at the cost of the actions you demand.

So is this the official response from the PD, or just your personal opinion?

[SekoETC]

I was in staff and was kicked out. I've come to terms with that, but someone was going around saying I resigned myself. That ain't right. I was thrown out.

[Alladinsane]

Personal opinion.

My "official" work rarely happens on this forum.
Though it seems that watching it has become a new addition to the duties.

[sherman]

Maybe someone should then put a notice about open posts etc? I understand that it takes more work but if you get 1-2 more people on staff it's worth it

[Alladinsane]

We're not talking about the 'open letters', but the 'Petition for Axiom to stay' thread that contained lots of encouragement and praise and only two or three posts there was an issue with, right before it was deleted and everyone got banned.

The OP in this thread is about an "open letter". Axioms name was never mentioned.

And okay so I guess I'd just like some advice then on how I'm supposed to police other players.

I think you captured it right there.
We have been 'suggesting and recruiting' for months.
So we have proposed a solution.
Would you rather be person #2 or person #3?

I give you the last word

[Marian]

The OP in this thread is about an "open letter". Axioms name was never mentioned.

The subject of this thread is the bannings that took place in Axiom's praise thread. So questions about that thread are still on topic.

I give you the last word

Seeing as you just deleted my entire post except for the bit you quoted, this doesn't seem to be the case?

I am extremely confused now as to what was problematic about anything I said.

[Father Brian]

We have been 'suggesting and recruiting' for months.

How do I join?

[Theda]

Hello everyone,

This is my open letter:

I'm going to make a summary of my thoughts for all who has got problems with the current staff.

I play here since 9 years. I work here since a lot of years. I've had lots of jobs in the staff with the idea to help (you and the game). With this I want to say that I really LOVE this game.

When the people of this staff make something always there is a reason and this reason, sometimes, is not possible to be discuss in the forum and sometimes, there is a fail technical. You don't remember that this is a free game, that we are volunteers, or that we are humans. We have lifes, real lifes, but we are here because we love this game, and we give part of our time to try to make this game better.

The words against EchoMan, the GAB and the staff... make me sick. You don't have the right to insult us, you don't have the right to say disrespectful words, accuse us to make something to harm you. Believe me, I don't waste my time and my life thinking of you and the ways to be your devil. Really, I don't mind. So, I'm not going to read anything else , because you are really unfair, unpleasant and ungrateful. And I don't want to be here to read you words, just to help (you and the game) and it seems that you don't wish this help which is offer by us.

Well, people, you have got a lot of ways to make a complain. You also have got ways to make suggestions, ways to help, ways to discuss and if you are not able to find them, you can ask by thousands of ways too.

So, to me, this drama ends here. If you have any problem, I will be here to try to help you. AS ALWAYS.

And remember, this is a free game, which has been developed by players over the years. If you are not happy, you are free to play it or not.

[Marian]

The words against EchoMan, the GAB and the staff... make me sick. You don't have the right to insult us, you don't have the right to say disrespectful words, accuse us to make something to harm you. Believe me, I don't waste my time and my life thinking of you and the ways to be your devil. Really, I don't mind. So, I'm not going to read anything else , because you are really unfair, unpleasant and ungrateful. And I don't want to be here to read you words, just to help (you and the game) and it seems that you don't wish this help which is offer by us.

I have not seen any of this happening in the thread. The discussion with EchoMan was civil and raised real points that have been a major issue for awhile. The lack of transparency and communication. Hearing high level staff members saying they're not going to bother reading anything else players have to say...is one of making the staff's position clear, I guess, but not really the positive step forward everyone was hoping for.

And again, I'm bothered by posts that contain nothing objectional just randomly being deleted.

All I did was point out in response to Ally's suggestion to 'police other players' was that there was no way for me, a player, to stop another player from making a rule-breaking post. And if it was going to be the policy to delete entire threads because the staff no longer had the time to remove individual posts, as Ally suggested it should be, then that would mean anyone here could easily cause the removal of any major thread on this forum.


EDIT: Okay, Alladinsane has explained the issue to me and deleting my post was apparently a mistake of hitting edit instead of quote. So, not freaking out about that anymore and it's fine.