Thinking about quitting.....

[hyrle]

That was the one - Shintolin. If you want to see what a more crafting-centric game is like when it's made into turn-based game with limits (like UD and Shartak), give that one a shot. I guarantee you the roleplaying and social aspects of Cantr are far superior to Shintolin.

[Friar Briar]

I did give Shintolin a shot a while back. They had a great idea for a game (piggy-backing on UD and Shartak layout), a great crafting and building system, and a terrible, terrible hands-off approach. All the players were ganged-up trolls, and the inmates were running the asylum. What a terrible waste of a game.

[hyrle]

That's how I felt about it as well. In any case, I'm not sure limits make a game much better. It's good for the game server, of course.

[Cdls]

In any case, I'm not sure limits make a game much better.

Depends on the game or the context of the limits.

An example for those of you who remember the NES days...one word...Contra.

If that game didn't have the insanely small amount of lives (for the non-cheaters out there) would it have been the game it was? Playing it with the cheat was ridiculously boring, without the cheat it was a challenging rage fest of fun. (+1 for those who remember two player mode and wanting to punch your 'friend' for jumping up too high and killing you when you went below the screen).


That is just one example, I can come up with others, but I am really tired atm.

[Friar Briar]

That's how I felt about it as well. In any case, I'm not sure limits make a game much better. It's good for the game server, of course.

I hear you.

In any case, I'm not sure limits make a game much better.

Depends on the game or the context of the limits.

An example for those of you who remember the NES days...one word...Contra.

If that game didn't have the insanely small amount of lives (for the non-cheaters out there) would it have been the game it was? Playing it with the cheat was ridiculously boring, without the cheat it was a challenging rage fest of fun. (+1 for those who remember two player mode and wanting to punch your 'friend' for jumping up too high and killing you when you went below the screen).

I've never played Contra, but I've read enough stories about it that I know what you're talking about. This metaphor illustrates why I think some kinds of limiting challenge would be reinvigorating for the Cantr platform.

[Swingerzetta]

I finally got around to reading that big post, and the responses it spawned, and I think some very good points were raised all around.

I think a big part of the issue that was brought up (overly conservative elements of the playerbase preventing experimentation and innovation) is actually pretty typical of other democratically created games, from what I've seen. And that's that, while player input is a great thing, true democracy doesn't seem to work.

There are many examples of some excellent suggestions that were rejected in the suggestions forums votes by enough people to ensure that it wouldn't be accepted. These often have some Very enthusiastic supporters, but those who don't like the suggestion usually point out how it would make it harder for one or more of their chars to survive. People aren't voting for the greater good of the game, they're voting for how their personal experience would be impacted, which makes sense... But it doesn't result in changes that benefit the game the most.

Basically, I'd like to see the people in power feel free to accept unpopular suggestions now and then, for the good of the people.

Also, the mechanics of roads have been brought up as part of the challenges the game faces, and I agree. I agree because when I first tried the game, I 'quit' after I sent a character down a road, and gave up on the whole experience before she got to the other end. Months later I gave the game a second chance, and stayed far away from roads for quite some time. The 'newspawn island' probably helps this a bit. But I think new players need to be given more consideration in general, since many get scared off by the learning curve or general strangeness.

Also also, personally, a play-time limit would benefit me, and a few others that I know, by allowing us to play in small amounts without worrying that our relative sleepiness is causing problems for our chars.

Finally, back on topic, actually, I had been planning on not spawning any more chars, partly to sulkily protest the serial-killer playstyle of other players, and to basically quit once everyone I currently had was dead... But I've recently had some character ideas that are perhaps too good to let go of, so maybe I won't be kicking the addiction quite so easily...

[returner]

Also, the mechanics of roads have been brought up as part of the challenges the game faces, and I agree. I agree because when I first tried the game, I 'quit' after I sent a character down a road, and gave up on the whole experience before she got to the other end. Months later I gave the game a second chance, and stayed far away from roads for quite some time.

JsWill would love you right now, and EchoMan would be seething.

[Marian]

To actually get this thread back on topic a moment:

When my current characters are dead I will be leaving for good. I still do get the occasional idea for one I'd like to try, but it's impossible for me to ignore anymore how pointless it all is. The game world has been stagnant forever now and I don't believe it will ever change because the staff always has to bow to the whim of the players, and the players can never agree on anything or think past what's convenient for their own characters. Things being changed or not changed now seems to all come down to who's willing to shout the loudest. We can't even get a simple thing like butter without tears and drama, let alone a dynamic world with built in challenges and IG incentives to organize or fight or cooperate. You know, that whole 'society simulator' thing that's supposed to be the purpose of the game, except it doesn't exist and never did.

I still love RPing all my current characters and I'm sure I'll get plenty of enjoyment from them for a good long while to come, but the fact is I can RP anywhere. What drew me into Cantr to begin with was the promise of being given a blank foundation to help build cities and communities on, working--or clashing--with others to overcome challenges and create a shared story that was greater than the sum of its parts. And this could all be done--working, building, trading, making friends or enemies--even if you could only spend five minutes on each character twice a day.

Except the game at that time was still in the works and not yet anywhere near reaching it's potential and now...I don't know what direction it's being developed in anymore. I don't even know if the staff knows. In fact if I could wish for one thing relating to Cantr's future development it would be that you guys all get together with Jos and decide on a set goal for the end state of game and then just focus on it and stay the course and ignore all the bitching and moaning on the forums.

...and now to get back off topic again and resume with the huge ridiculous derail, in regards to the 200 minute limit, I've been wanting to say that while it doesn't make a difference to me one way or the other, one good thing it did lead to was more people voting for Cantr on all these browser game sites in order to build up those credits so they'd have a few extra minutes for emergencies. I remember I used to vote on three or four sites all the time even though I almost never used up my minutes, now I only bother once in a blue moon if I happen to think about it.

e: sorry if I sound overly depressed in this post, reading the forums lately has just got me feeling this way. Sometimes I don't get why we even play the game at all when we apparently all hate it so much...

[Joshuamonkey]

In my opinion this shows that there is something of value or interest in this game that draws us in, otherwise we wouldn't make the effort to argue about it. There have been some well thought out posts in these two threads.

[SekoETC]

Sometimes I think about quitting but then I think some people would probably be happy if I quit, so I can't let them win.

[Swingerzetta]

Sometimes I think about quitting but then I think some people would probably be happy if I quit, so I can't let them win.

That's the spirit, Seko! Although, it still amazes me that you, of all people, are unpopular among some part of the community here...

[Joshuamonkey]

Sometimes I think about quitting but then I think some people would probably be happy if I quit, so I can't let them win.

That's the spirit, Seko! Although, it still amazes me that you, of all people, are unpopular among some part of the community here...

I just wanted to say, Seko, you're great. Sometimes the voices of complaint or opposition are the ones that sound the loudest, but I'll add my voice to say at least some do appreciate what you've done, and I'd be sad to see you leave Cantr.

[sherman]

Sometimes I think about quitting but then I think some people would probably be happy if I quit, so I can't let them win.

That's the spirit, Seko! Although, it still amazes me that you, of all people, are unpopular among some part of the community here...

I just wanted to say, Seko, you're great. Sometimes the voices of complaint or opposition are the ones that sound the loudest, but I'll add my voice to say at least some do appreciate what you've done, and I'd be sad to see you leave Cantr.

Indeed, I appreciate myself the work you have done for game and stuff you have added. Don't give up!

[SekoETC]

Maybe I'm just paranoid but I'm pretty sure at least a couple of people hate my guts and would rather see me gone. Thanks for all the kind words.

[returner]

Maybe I'm just paranoid but I'm pretty sure at least a couple of people hate my guts and would rather see me gone. Thanks for all the kind words.

Oh, plenty of us feel that Seko.

edit: plenty of us feel that people want us gone, not that plenty feel you should go >.< It's an online forum, you can't please everyone.