Thinking about quitting.....

[JsWill]

But I ask, sincerely, what could we do that would really make a difference in the player base? I'm sure there are many things, but what are they specifically? Making Cantr more SEO friendly?

In short I'll sum it up like this. All of the complains I've received pretty much ended in "If it's a role playing game, why are the roads so long making role playing impossible?" from people who I try to get into the game. First step getting new people would definitely revamp the travel system. I thought about it a lot and I have a pretty good method that seems to not fix but band aid the problem until a better solution can be found.

Basically, when you walk down a road the max ticks are 4 min are 2 for walking and when you hit the end of the road (if you were walking and depending on the road length) your tiredness is probably max. So you have to wait a while before heading down another. Vehicles would ease the tiredness factor thus making you move more quickly and efficiently.

That's just the start though but that is the majority of the complaints I got and probably the most consistent. I've personally complained about the combat but that wasn't even the problem for them, it was literally the way roads worked. Fix that and I bet you any amount of money the player base will grow significantly. Maybe not immediately but enough to make a dent.

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The next thing on the list that people complained about the most was just not understanding it. Tutorial island doesn't really seem to help with that either. I don't know what goes on there but no one I tried to get into the game were helped by it, it seemed to confuse them more. I think maybe the UI is just a bit strange and the learning curve is a bit steep if you don't understand a few core concepts. I got them repeating "what do I do now?" a lot. Because they were role players but the game play aspect threw them off a bit.

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Finally, the last complaint (not the last but the last of the repeat complaints.) was that activities take too long. Like collecting wood or picking crops or you know, things that just take a long time to do. I don't know if this necessarily needs to be fixed, it doesn't seem to be bad when there are people to role play with. It only becomes tedious when you are alone and have to do it for x number of days. But if you could find a way to maybe shorten that without destroying the Cantr feel then that would be great too cause that's definitely something people get turned off on. But mainly it's the roads.

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Now if we're talking about advertising. I don't know, I do the best I can honestly. I advertise a lot and primarily because I played a lot and wanted new players cause I wanted new characters. But it all seemed to fade away due to inherent weaknesses in the way it was designed.

[Friar Briar]

You need to be pretty convinced of your ideas to implement them against this kind of resistance.

Which is why I don't want to join RD in the first place, because of all the backlash at the expense of keeping the game alive. I seriously don't know how RD puts up with it. Definitely have more patience and tolerance than I do.

As for my reasons for not playing at the moment, it has indeed much to do with the lack of blank canvases. The game is basically fine as it is, but choking from the build-up of player-generated content. While the ability to have a rich history is actually one of the stronger points of the game, at the time I left, it had gotten increasingly difficult to find white spots on the figurative canvas to make an impact of your own.
Or to use another metaphor, it's hard to have fun in a sandbox infinitely, when all the sand castles are reinforced with concrete.

Nice to have it affirmed that my gut feelings are spot-on. I shouldn't have edited away my post.

[SekoETC]

My assumption is that Cantr was originally built for players who could only log in once a day, thus everything including traveling took at least a day. If travel times were shortened, people would complain that they arrived somewhere while sleeping and couldn't continue instantly. But for people who spend most of the day just waiting for something to happen, it would be better if there were more ticks. I'm rarely in a situation where I wouldn't know what to do next, but those plans often take weeks to carry out. It would be good if old towns would crumble away, because once they have been looted, there's nothing interesting about them. They were made before room descriptions existed, so they all look the same.

[Finchington]

After quite a while of um-ing and ah-ing, I think the time for me to throw in the towel is quickly approaching.

Of the seven characters I play, I genuinely enjoy playing only one. I'm attached to the others, but I mostly find myself feeling a little on edge whilst playing them. Considering the fact that Cantr is just a game, this sort of worries me. Though, I'm almost certain that there's a bunch of players who would be pretty relieved, if I were to skedaddle

I enjoy the game, but when it gets to the point where I, as a player, am not feeling alright when something bad happens to my characters, it starts to get a little questionable. Still tossing up between unsubbing, or just taking a break, but knowing me, I'll probably come crawling back with my tail between my legs... Just letting off some steam

[Rebma]

Oddly seko, you made me realise somethng. When I started playing this game a decade or so ago, we had a steady player base and a 200 minute limit. I cant help but wonder if doing away with the limit started the trend of the player base decreasing. Back when we had 200 minutes you weren't just sitting around waiting for a char light up. You were doing all your goals under the challenge of that limit. It really makes cantr's history that much more incredible, knowing what was achieved with such a limit. I remember the feeling when you, for instance as a town leader, managed to set up a million repairs for workers and had ten minutes to spare.

and when you ran out everyone sat around in irc or on a Messenger client waiting for the reset, and it was a rush, especially if something intense was going on.

I won't be stupid enough to suggest bringing back limits (the players are sizing me up for a noose as it is), but it's an interesting thought.

[Friar Briar]

to suggest bringing back limits

I volunteer for this mission.

[EchoMan]

After my last character dies I am going to quit Cantr. Frankly, i don't care if Cantr goes Bankcrupt anymore. I am honestly tired at putting up with PD. Soon, I'll be free from Cantr!

You could just play according to the rules and never have to worry about PD?

[Friar Briar]

200 minute limits = less is more.

Point one: Returner is concerned about a running deficit. Wants to increase donations to keep servers running.

Point two: Rebma points out increased and superior player investment and game play as a result of 200 minute limits.

Solution: Bring back the 200 minute limit. It resolves several problems all at once.

Players will need to prioritize character actions and decisions. Creativity and investment will increase. In-game actions and stories will become more exciting. Stakes will be higher, game play will tighten up, and players will need to be creative and imaginative to accommodate the time they have.

Time limits are really important and beneficial for persistent games. Look at how KoL, Urban Dead, Shartak, or Improbable Island (and more) have managed to not only stay alive, but thrive, because of action and time limits.

The roleplay in Cantr becomes a completely different game without it. Gameplay becomes too loose and unmanageable when players have all the time in the world to "manage." Then boredom eventually sets in and players lose interest because it becomes all about managing and not having fun.

The unlimited playing time takes over players' lives, and then it becomes the game running the players, not the players running the game.

Bring back time limits.

(And to be honest, I'm not sure Cantr has evolved that much structurally to accommodate the lack of a time limit. It seems like the persistent part of the game has become both persistent and perpetual, and I'm not sure that's a good or healthy thing for players or game alike.)

[Rugila]

After my last character dies I am going to quit Cantr. Frankly, i don't care if Cantr goes Bankcrupt anymore. I am honestly tired at putting up with PD. Soon, I'll be free from Cantr!

You could just play according to the rules and never have to worry about PD?

The problem is PD is arbitrary. You never know when something upsets them and if they don't like it, you are screwed.
Like literally. if you don't have friends who have PD's as friend you are dead meat.
How do i get my characters locked from using vulgar language when there's people with a lot severe breaches on rules?

Just my constructive criticism of them.

[sherman]

After my last character dies I am going to quit Cantr. Frankly, i don't care if Cantr goes Bankcrupt anymore. I am honestly tired at putting up with PD. Soon, I'll be free from Cantr!

As a former GA (gameadmin) from other game, being on position to punish/solve/etc other players is actually quite unrewarding. You usually get lot of crap when you just make sure people go by rules and thus not too many want to take such position with so much responsibilities. PD just does it job like all GAs from all games, they are still people with feelings. And people can be very mean when you just do your job. I can't say what you have met with them but.. I know they do their job and.. nobody is perfect, mistakes happen like always with people

I will be sad to see you gone since you got me here in first place but... PD just does it work like it should. We should be happy that they do, I know games where.. their game admins don't do their job and things go badly wrong.

[EchoMan]

I don't have friends in the PD and none of my friends do. I have had one issue with the PD in all of my years of playing, and that was when I was fairly new and didn't pay attention. I do not consider myself dead meat. I do however get to read a lot of cases of players breaching the rules as part of my job in GAB.
Your immediate problem here is that you defend yourself by stating others are worse than you instead of looking at yourself.

[hyrle]

I don't have friends in the PD and none of my friends do. I have had one issue with the PD in all of my years of playing, and that was when I was fairly new and didn't pay attention. I do not consider myself dead meat. I do however get to read a lot of cases of players breaching the rules as part of my job in GAB.
Your immediate problem here is that you defend yourself by stating others are worse than you instead of looking at yourself.

I echo echoman on this. I don't know people from the PD outside of game (except with interactions on the forums), and never had much problem with the PD. In fact, I found them quite understanding the one time I was contacted by them and they were able to clear up my misunderstanding on a rule.

Comparing Cantr to turn-based games like Urban Dead and Shartak is comparing apples and oranges. If you're suggesting a turn-based game like Cantr (rather than tick-based), then I actually think the level of interaction would actually go down rather than up. I actually played a turn-based game (kind of like Shartak with city-building) for a few weeks... it was a big mess with a paranoid community that faced hordes of multi-players who would tear down people's towns for the lolz. I quit pretty soon after starting since the main point of the game seemed to be either "fortress up with my friends" or "march around in large hordes killing people".

KoL is more of a single-player experience and doesn't really need a community for most of the content. I've never played Improbable Island, so I can't comment on it.

As for bringing back the 200 minute limit, I don't agree that this will help the game. As I play a few town leaders, I have to login fairly often during the 16 hours I'm online each day to make sure that the town needs are being met, since my town members live in different time zones and play at different times.

[Cdls]

After my last character dies I am going to quit Cantr. Frankly, i don't care if Cantr goes Bankcrupt anymore. I am honestly tired at putting up with PD. Soon, I'll be free from Cantr!

You could just play according to the rules and never have to worry about PD? :)

The problem is PD is arbitrary. You never know when something upsets them and if they don't like it, you are screwed.
Like literally. if you don't have friends who have PD's as friend you are dead meat.
How do i get my characters locked from using vulgar language when there's people with a lot severe breaches on rules?

Just my constructive criticism of them.

Ruglia, if you feel that the multiple instances in which it was explained how your behavior was not appropriate was not explanatory enough, please feel free to contact me via PM for further clarification. Secondly, if you feel that the multiple chances you were given were not fair enough, once again, PM me to discuss why that is. Third, if you feel that there are others who are breaking the rules, please feel free to report them so we can look into it.


This goes for anyone else as well, if you feel that something hasn't been explained enough, or you feel something isn't warranted, contact the department so that it can be cleared up. Use the Email link on your players page, or a PM here on the forum (you can get a list of active department members in the compose message screen by selecting the Find Member link).
Also, if you see people breaking the rules, report them.

[Optimus Christ]

*sits back with coffee and watches the thread* Wait for it...

[Friar Briar]

I actually played a turn-based game (kind of like Shartak with city-building) for a few weeks... it was a big mess with a paranoid community that faced hordes of multi-players who would tear down people's towns for the lolz. I quit pretty soon after starting since the main point of the game seemed to be either "fortress up with my friends" or "march around in large hordes killing people".

Was it Shintolin?