How much for the little girl?

[The Industriallist]

>Pirog
Some people, including myself, care more about internal consistency than about similarity to RL. It isn't so bad when weapons change and suddenly you (perhaps) seem to recall your bow looking a bit different, but it couldn't have, could it?...But some characters are going to grow a sudden desire to do something that they've never heard of. If one of my characters experienced that, they would conclude that they must have gone insane, pulling ideas out of 'nowhere' (OOC land) like that.

kinvoya>
There are reasons that explanation doesn't cut it...
Aside from the view that if it's there, you can see it:
If animals were ever 'young' and invisible, there would be a lag between population and growth rate. So if you killed all of an animal, some of them might mature in the next hour or so and appear out of nowhere. It's a bit hard to tell with the new invisible animal movement, but I will make the unsubstantiated claim that cantr isn't coded that way.

Assuming that the people of Cantr can see the animals reproduce then they might wonder if little Cantr people could be produced that way also. If one did suddenly appear via birth it might be a bit of a surprise but I don’t think it would be such a big mystery.

If it isn't in any of the game screens, characters can't see it. (The inverse need not be true.). So characters cannot possibly see animals reproducing.

Also, what do cantr people and animals have in common? The only thing I can think of is the ability to be hurt and killed by attacks. That isn't a lot to make such a big extrapolation from...especially one that you've seen for 10+ years to be false.

[Pirog]

The Industriallist>

I see your point, but again, it is a very small and in my eyes silly reasons for not wanting children in the game.
If you don't want children for other reasons you should stick to other arguments, because this really isn't a big issue consdering that a great deal of knowledge seems to come to people without any reason...like knowing the name of a place you have never seen before as soon as you see it etc.

[kinvoya]

The last few crocodiles must have been killed before they were able to reproduce, otherwise crocodiles would still be around. They could have just reached the age of reproduction/huntability when they were killed. (This is all my speculation, of course)

If animals aren’t created through reproduction then there is no good reason why more crocodiles haven’t been spawned.

Some but not all Cantr people are driven by certain urges or desires. To kill, to eat, to own, to steal, to control, etc. Some experience sexual urges. There is nothing in the game that makes them “want” to do these things. They just do. If the game mechanics someday make reproduction possible then some will naturally want to reproduce.

[SekoETC]

If one did suddenly appear via birth it might be a bit of a surprise but I don’t think it would be such a big mystery.

This reminds me of one thing: In the early stone age they didn't realize that sex causes babies because fucking like rabbits was natural and having babies all the time was natural. But most of the babies were stillborn, so there may have been tribes that hadn't seen a living baby for years. Every spring (that's good time for having babies, since if they come out alive, they have the whole warm season to gather strenght and grow fat) the wife gave birth to a small dead creature, which they buried in the forest by an altar. They saw these dead kids being born as a natural, a bit magical thing that happens every year. And they at least respected if not worshipped those stillborn little corpses. Their souls were believed to look after the tribe. They died because the woman did not have a nutrition that was good enough.
Also if a live baby was born and the tribe was low on food, the baby was killed since nursing it would be too taxing. Anyway, after giving birth, maybe there's a little break, then they start fucking again and some time in the summer bang, she's pregnant again. There is no significant menstruation because most of the year the woman is pregnant, or too undernourished to have the right hormonal balance.
Because the babies are mostly preemies, giving birth is not so hard as it would be for a full time baby. So they can have dozens of babies. Only a fraction of them lived to adulthood and usually people died at the latest in their thirties. If someone lived longer than that, it was amazing and those elderly were highly respected, though they may have been only fifty-something.
It sounds pretty much like Cantr, no one dies of old age, people get killed by people or animals or starvation, most people die young. ...Well, exept for the sleeping sickness... that's an oddity. Ok maybe I better stop, no one has the stamina for reading all this.

[Spider]

Its not too much reading when you have time....like i do today.

[The Industriallist]

I see your point, but again, it is a very small and in my eyes silly reasons for not wanting children in the game.

I disagree, but it isn't an issue I can think of a way to argue.

If you don't want children for other reasons you should stick to other arguments, because this really isn't a big issue consdering that a great deal of knowledge seems to come to people without any reason...like knowing the name of a place you have never seen before as soon as you see it etc.

I'm not firmly on the anti-children side. I'm uncertain as to the right path now, so I'm not fighting that issue. I just think that the consistancy point deserves some respect and attention.

And the point isn't related to knowledge at all. Knowledge of what appears in the primary game screens is fundamentally available to all non-impaired characters. This includes town names, whatever RL analogue mechanism you want to make up for it. Areas have names, have always had names, and everyone can see them. As such, odd though it might be, characters will know as soon as the change goes through that they can reproduce (assuming it's visible from the main screens under common conditions).

The point is that the sudden inconsistancy is reality-shattering. No one had ever been born before. No character had ever created another. The wierdness charactes ought to hold reproduction in is almost as disturbing as the clear fact that most of them won't. It's something their player is familiar with (and in some cases has treated as real even when it wasn't), so they won't react as if this is the first time in their 10+ years in this world that they've encountered such a thing. Some of the better players won't screw this up, but I can just see baby showers, and christening ceremonies, and just total lack of shock all across Cantr. And anyone like me who says 'this is OOC' will be ignored and/or mocked for thinking reality and cantr are seperate.

I didn't mean to go and argue it...really...

The last few crocodiles must have been killed before they were able to reproduce, otherwise crocodiles would still be around. They could have just reached the age of reproduction/huntability when they were killed. (This is all my speculation, of course)

If animals aren’t created through reproduction then there is no good reason why more crocodiles haven’t been spawned.

YES, ANIMALS DO REPRODUCE!
I never said otherwise. What I said is that they were never young. Which could be wrong, but I seriously doubt it. With animals I'm quite sure that what you see is what is there...like just about everything in cantr...

[Pirog]

The point is that the sudden inconsistancy is reality-shattering...

I think Cantr is a bit basic so far to discuss things on that level.
I'm sure there will be some irritating reactions from some people, but again...that is a small problem. It could even be solved, by an official note declaring how people should react etc.

People often want a priest when they get married, the exchange rings and other things that is based on OOC knowledge...but that is just something we have to live with. I'm really not bothered by it, but if you are it still exists and will in the future even on current Cantrian issues...so people making OOC things regarding children won't make such a big impact.

[Lumera]

*coughresetcough*

Only way children'll ever make sense to me...

[The Industriallist]

People often want a priest when they get married, the exchange rings and other things that is based on OOC knowledge...but that is just something we have to live with.

I don't see why we have to live with it. I consider it at the top of the list of bad things that I can help with without being able to commit more time...I would regard anything of that kind as a major breach.

[Missy]

I find that weddings/marriages aren't necessarily happening because people want to mock our society, anyhow. I find they happen mostly because people want to mock the meaning of it, but can't come up with anything to call it beside a "wedding or marriage"

[Pirog]

I don't see why we have to live with it.

Well, that is besides the point. What I was aiming at is that such behavior allready exists on many planes in Cantr, so adding children won't make such a negative impact on that part.

[viktor]

kids would be great, as for speed of maturity to independance and full functionality, i think that as a kid growing up they cannot innitiate any projects they have not learned, so if thier parent(s)/community teaches them enough soon enough then they could for the most part function independantly much younger than 20. from this point we can decided either, at age 20 a person gets full functionality no matter what, or we can leave it in a sense to the people only being able to do things they have been taught (and of course they can still learn). as for the method to make kids, just make it a project that has a certain sucess rate the man and woman try a project which takes a day, if it suceeds the woman is pregnant, or they lay an egg (however you want to reproduce in this game is up to the creators lol) and then after set amount of time it is born(or hatched) and tada you have the baby, and well just like the real world you can raise it well or poorly, keep it or sell it off to slave traders whatever, just giving a broad yet specific idea at the same time.

[Pirog]

The system of regarding people below the age of 20 as non-adults is a very new tradition...so it would not be unrealistic to have 10 year olds doing hard labor.

[Nick]

The system of regarding people below the age of 20 as non-adults is a very new tradition...so it would not be unrealistic to have 10 year olds doing hard labor.

They make great clothes nowadays, at least.

[The Industriallist]

The learning business has nothing particularly to do with children, but it has the usual problem...do all the people existant get to keep their boundless, godlike knowledge, or do they suddenly suffer massive brain damage and forget every useful thing they know? Either way it's horribly messed up...worse than a world where overnight iron gets (way) over 5 times harder to make, with pre-existing stocks of many thousands of grams...

Also, how do you learn new things? You know, the ones that have never been done before?

Though I would say dig up one of the old threads on that topic, instead of bringing it here...