Thought or Rant of the day!!!

[*Wiro]

It surprised me a few years back to find out people would actually choose not to get vaccinated, posing a health risk to themselves and those around them.

Of course vaccinations are the number one cause of autism. Wink wink nudge nudge.

[Alladinsane]

It should be a personal choice, and personal choices have consequences.

When I go in public and take my baby out (well, my 20yr old baby now) I knew that -I- as the parent was going to take the responsibility for protecting her. If I was unsure of a danger, I kept her away. That's parental responsibility and personal accountability. I didn't put blame for -my- responsibility upon others to protect my baby, that's my job as a parent.

I did it.

I sure don't blame anyone else for my own mistakes. Nor do I take vicarious credit for her successes of the past, present, or future. I had the personal responsibility to protect her... now its hers.
======================

So it opens up a whole gamut of legal ramifications... if someone does not get vaccinated, can they be held civilly (or as some people want to make even more new laws:) criminally responsible for someone getting sick?

The flu virus kills more people ( http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us ... deaths.htm ) per year, every year than all other maladies combined. The flu virus mutates every year and there are many new flu viruses ( http://www.flu.gov/about_the_flu/virus_ ... index.html ) and there is a belief that the mutations may have a causal relationship to the numerous vaccines. I don't know the answer, but the matter is surely unsettled.

Lets at least educate ourselves instead of the two camps that have turned this into their religions and using ad hominem attacks as straw-man bolsters of their positions.

I think the autism argument is likely dead, but as a person who practices natural things in my diet (usually, sometimes I am weak) and lifestyle, I know that injecting things inside my body that are not supposed to be there rarely ends up with positive consequences.

Protect yourselves and the ones you love...wear sunscreen, condoms, eat healthy, etc.

Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing.
Redd Foxx

Personal responsibility.

[NancyLee]

Edited because I'm too sleepy to know how to edit and quote myself instead XD

[NancyLee]

It surprised me a few years back to find out people would actually choose not to get vaccinated, posing a health risk to themselves and those around them.

[...]

I agree with that. Yes, despite the whole9 and all of it. I don't take unnecessary medicines and eat as clean as I can, but especially when it comes to children vaccines, I find it a matter of civil responsability, so to say. It is a choice, yes, but it is a choice that also affects others. For me there's enough proof that avoiding certain chemicals and living a natural life with good food, good exercise, etc. is good for your body, as a diabetic person who has another serious medical condition I know that a decent lifestile makes me not insuline dependant for the most part and feel better overall, but I get pretty annoyed at certain new age gurus that seem to fight against medical progress. Vaccines have erradicated illnesses.

That is my choice. Someone takes that away, there will literally be a physical confrontation.

That is your choice, sure. But if your choice of not getting a vaccine affects a baby, there's also a "literal physical confrontation" with someone who didn't have a choice.

@Wiro, you reminded me of something that led to a fun argument with a friend:

[Genie]

A little out of topic, but what you've posted reminded me of this.

[NancyLee]

Hahaha Genie, I really needed something like that today. Thanks!

[Genie]

Most welcome.

[Doug R.]

If you get sick with a disease that would be preventable with vaccines, you might not die from it or get permanent injuries, but you might infect a baby who's too young to get vaccinated and that baby won't have as strong an immune system as you have, so the baby might die or go blind/deaf/end up in a wheelchair.

Amen to that, Seko.

My point is, everyone has their choices they want to make and that's fine, But when that choice gets taken away, that's where I draw the line.

As far as I'm concerned, personal rights end when they affect other people. Society has a right to not suffer the consequences of your poor choice. If you're walking around with a bomb strapped to your chest in a crowd, and you have a choice to push a button to disarm it but don't, because that doesn't suit you at that moment in time, those deaths are on you.

Doctors could end this herd ignorance if every single one of them refused to take on unvaccinated patients. Many are doing that now, but all of them need to.

When I go in public and take my baby out (well, my 20yr old baby now) I knew that -I- as the parent was going to take the responsibility for protecting her. If I was unsure of a danger, I kept her away.

This really isn't an argument. You're basically saying, if your child got gunned down in their classroom, it's -your- fault for sending her to school. Absurd.

When did a sense of communal responsibility get lost in American society? We've become a society of selfish individualists that do what we feel is best for us (or what Fox News tells us is best for us) without any regard for the people living around us. We bitch and complain about Congress doing nothing but arguing, but look in the mirror folks: They are you. The internet will be the downfall of civilization. 7 billion people doing whatever they feel like because they can find whatever "facts" they want to support their point of view. And the sensible and innocent will get drug down with everyone else.

[Alladinsane]

Thank you genie.
You may have just saved this thread.

[Snickie]

A little out of topic, but what you've posted reminded me of this.

Lol I've seen this before

I'm going to put this next part in small text because I don't want it to blow up into more arguments and whatnot but of course I have to add my two cents.

Doug, I believe that was a straw man attack against my father's argument. Of course it's the shooter's fault if he barges into a classroom and shoots and kills all the students. It's different than refusing to get a vaccine. It's not like those who choose not to vaccinate are making said choice because they intend to contract measles or smallpox and then use themselves as a biological weapon to infect all the infidels (unless that really is their plan ). It may happen inadvertently, but the shooter actively makes the choice to pull the trigger.

The antivaxxer is probably still at fault for not isolating him/herself when s/he realized s/he was sick, but nature happens.

I think a lot of the argument comes from anecdotes where well-patient visits (checkups and vaccines and whatnot) are shortly followed by sick-patient visits. Sometimes it's an adverse reaction to the vaccine. Sometimes it's the disease itself (and this is what makes people less likely to trust vaccines). It doesn't automatically mean that the disease was contracted from the vaccine. It also doesn't automatically mean that the person had the disease already (without knowing it) when they went to get the vaccine. It can mean that the disease was picked up from someone in the waiting room.

This is one major reason why I don't get the flu shot - a lot of people are complacent and don't bother to get it until they've been exposed and panic. I personally would rather deal with the flu if I happen to catch it than to get the drugs. Maybe I say that because I've only had mild cases of the flu, with and without Tamiflu.

It's similar with tetanus if I'm not mistaken - step on a rusty nail and THEN go get the tetanus shot (if you haven't had one already). Only I would rather go get the tetanus shot than deal with tetanus.

Anyway.

All this talk about the antivaxxers on the news makes me wonder what kind of big government scandal the news outlets are trying to cover up this time.

[Alladinsane]

You totally missed what I was saying Doug.

But in the interest of this forum community, I will leave it at that.
May God bless you and your loved ones with health and long lives.

Be well.

[Snickie]

I microwaved this bowl of food over two hours ago and I still haven't finished eating it.

I am (un)officially the slowest (and most distracted) eater in the world.

[Faith]

[...]The internet will be the downfall of civilization. 7 billion people doing whatever they feel like because they can find whatever "facts" they want to support their point of view. And the sensible and innocent will get drug down with everyone else.

You just remind me something that I saw some time ago. (Clarification: I'm not trying to be rude, I respect all opinions and the following video just pretend to be a comic sketch).

At: 0'40''

[Calyx]

[Faith]