How would you fix Cantr?

[Swingerzetta]

FORCE COOPERATION
-Big ships being sailed by one person? Get rid of it.
-Same with most complicated machines. The higher tech, the more people needed to use it. (but with significant output bonuses)

I would change that to "FORCE INTERACTION". Along the lines of a skills rework, I will kick this horse again and again: make skills mean something. The DIY culture IS a problem. One way to eliminate it and make skills/careers mean something is to require skills to create stuff. Let anyone make and gather the very basics. Anything beyond that requires skill. You'll see, for example, Joe specialize in a job that Bob can't come along and do as a novice. Bob will have to do work that he is good at and trade for whatever Joe is making. Interaction and cooperation.

This would make trade more interesting, too, when luxury foods or clothes, or anything arrive in a town with no experts in that field. Being able to set up shops that can sell to OTHER towns would be quite exciting. I've only seen one succeed, though, and that makes use of the custom description option and actual real-world designing and describing talent. That's an example of the concept in action, actually. The expert skill involved is description.

[SekoETC]

My Finnish characters and some other people's too, have enjoyed exploring their region but it's so huge. Only like 2 people have made contact with the English. (Okay, OOC I know of more than that, but my character only knows of 2 people.) Once one of my Finnish characters encountered a Polish explorer but both of my Finnish characters are very old, and this is the total of foreigners they have met. The area is simply so large that it's easy to go for years without seeing a single person.

[BosBaBe]

FORCE COOPERATION
-Big ships being sailed by one person? Get rid of it.
-Same with most complicated machines. The higher tech, the more people needed to use it. (but with significant output bonuses)

I would change that to "FORCE INTERACTION". Along the lines of a skills rework, I will kick this horse again and again: make skills mean something. The DIY culture IS a problem. One way to eliminate it and make skills/careers mean something is to require skills to create stuff. Let anyone make and gather the very basics. Anything beyond that requires skill. You'll see, for example, Joe specialize in a job that Bob can't come along and do as a novice. Bob will have to do work that he is good at and trade for whatever Joe is making. Interaction and cooperation.

I don't know how many times I've been disheartened when I see (not even when it happens to my own chars) that a char has a true interest in being a chef or tailor, gets appointed as the "designated" person for that job, then Jane Doe comes along and decides she's going to cook her own food just because she can and that dedicated chef loses out on a chance to do their job of choice. People like to feel important and have some level of responsibility. Right now that pride in their work is meaningless when -anyone- can do it.

Hell yes to all of this. Thinking about it, I'm actually surprised it wasn't implemented by default that if you're below efficient at something, you shouldn't be able to do it. But that would stop people from growing better at skills that they want to improve in, and also if you're stranded in the middle of nowhere, you could starve or not be able to hunt/defend yourself/make basic tools. Perhaps if you're below efficient, you would be forced to do a 'practice' project instead of the real thing, where it gives you less of the original project outcome, or it would take twice, maybe three times as long, and you can slowly improve. But I mean the lower the skill is, the -much- longer it takes, so it would stop the Jane Does from just cooking. It would be a waste of their time, and if they're say awkward at it, they won't get anything at all? Would you want to eat burnt food?

[SekoETC]

It seems like potato-based foods are too cheap and it doesn't make sense to make non-potato-based foods because they would be too expensive. If they were eaten at more grams a day than they are now, that would address the issue. Another option would be to make potatoes be harvested at a slower rate. Also domesticated animal meat should be more nutritious than wild animal meat. I don't think it's the case currently. Luxury foods might have a slightly smaller eat per day rate, but it doesn't cover the expenses. I think how much food is eaten per day should depend on how complicated it is to make, not just the ingredients. So something like cooked or smoked meat is way too efficient, considering how in most places meat is free, and it only takes one ingredient if you don't count the fuel.

[sanchez]

Devalue iron. The root of economic stagnation is the infrastructure and production incentives that have not been seriously altered since iron was removed as a diggable resource. They worked, too well, and are now ready to be redone. We have stockpiles of iron, too many tools, and finite locations that have dominated for years with little else to offer (and worse, have even been run over and over by the same players).

Iron is a bottleneck in almost all production paths. It’s no longer necessary to maintain this, and in fact it’s become a real problem. There are plenty of alternatives available now: aluminium, wood, clay, glass, cloth, mud, diggable metals, etc.. It isn’t working to recreate sets of tools on a linear tech hierarchy which always goes through iron else suffer unreasonable rot, inefficient production, and limited access to luxury goods. There should be equally viable paths in infrastructure to produce more regionally sourced trade goods, and in particular, consumable resources such as fuels, foods, and rp items like fireworks that will not also end up in stockpiles (provided stomach capacity is further shrunk to return trade value to more efficient prepared foods).

Economic competition as the source of politcal conflict offers to engage more chars on a longer term and in more interesting ways than quick death of keyholders (for more stockpiles of iron goods).

Newspawns, sailors, and chars who don’t live in regions with large cities are always low-hanging fruit for solutions in these kinds of threads. Making life more tedious for such chars has never fixed anything. What we need are more choices to be creative with infrastructure and production.

[Uma]

I do like the idea of low skill people being only able to help. not to start projects. it would diversify labor instead of everyone just making their own things.

[hyrle]

I don't like the idea of a low-skill person not being able to start projects. I only think it would work if some projects required higher skill than others. For example, cooking a fancy dish like mushroom risotto might not be available to a low-skilled player but potato chips would. Alternatively, making a car might not be, but making a bike would for vehicle production.

[Swingerzetta]

I don't like the idea of a low-skill person not being able to start projects. I only think it would work if some projects required higher skill than others. For example, cooking a fancy dish like mushroom risotto might not be available to a low-skilled player but potato chips would. Alternatively, making a car might not be, but making a bike would for vehicle production.

I thought this is what was meant, really. That high-level manufacturing would require talent beyond just awkward of novice, but simple stuff would still be available to everyone. (Otherwise, yeah, we'd have a lot more dead hermits)

[Bmot]

Devalue iron. The root of economic stagnation is the infrastructure and production incentives that have not been seriously altered since iron was removed as a diggable resource. They worked, too well, and are now ready to be redone. We have stockpiles of iron, too many tools, and finite locations that have dominated for years with little else to offer (and worse, have even been run over and over by the same players).

Iron is a bottleneck in almost all production paths. It’s no longer necessary to maintain this, and in fact it’s become a real problem. There are plenty of alternatives available now: aluminium, wood, clay, glass, cloth, mud, diggable metals, etc.. It isn’t working to recreate sets of tools on a linear tech hierarchy which always goes through iron else suffer unreasonable rot, inefficient production, and limited access to luxury goods. There should be equally viable paths in infrastructure to produce more regionally sourced trade goods, and in particular, consumable resources such as fuels, foods, and rp items like fireworks that will not also end up in stockpiles (provided stomach capacity is further shrunk to return trade value to more efficient prepared foods).

Economic competition as the source of politcal conflict offers to engage more chars on a longer term and in more interesting ways than quick death of keyholders (for more stockpiles of iron goods).

Newspawns, sailors, and chars who don’t live in regions with large cities are always low-hanging fruit for solutions in these kinds of threads. Making life more tedious for such chars has never fixed anything. What we need are more choices to be creative with infrastructure and production.

I think game-wise, you might not be wrong... However, look around in real life, and most all tools are made mainly of iron and steel. Reason being that (for example) aluminium makes terrible knives, hammers or spanners.

Truth is, iron in real life is just as important as in game, you just don't notice it as you don't have to make it yourself, here. There's a reason the "iron age" and stuff are called just that. It's the main constructive material.

Like I said, I'm not saying you're totally wrong, but please don't start making aluminium hammers.

[SekoETC]

There could be stainless steel, and assume all current steel rusts, but how would you simulate deterioration that eventually destroys the item and you can't fix it indefinitely?

[Bmot]

I like the thought of stainless steel, yes another use for chrome, like this, would be interesting

[sanchez]

I don’t want to see another duplicated set of tools, in any material. What I think we need are means of production of some consumables like fuels and foods, and luxury items, that don’t rely on local iron. New tech with real value that is independent of the old infrastructure.

It would be nice to spawn new chars who have more creative options in life than the current single path. Bone/wood/stone is so inefficient and hopeless, that you have to find iron, no matter where you are. And that most likely involves finding a city that is already entrenched in its own production and located near all of the same resources used again and again.

The world is too big, and already mapped. Language groups are spread widely. There are a lot of resources that are almost never used. Stimulating a wider variety of production doesn’t cost much for the big cities in game now (people will still move there and trade there even if their bone tools don’t need to be replaced), but it could change life, and political context, for chars in other regions.

Hoping not to lose the forest for some trees, as some rough examples: we could have a glass distillery, for alcohol and perfumes, etc.. Removing the trowel from the kiln could open up the clay tech, including the portable tajine which already makes some higher value foods from diverse ingredients. Why not an apothecary table made of marble? If e.g. an obsidian spear, or some aluminium weapon, or a jade scimitar, never rotted and had the same attack value as a short sword, people would not stop wanting battle axes. There could be more alloys of diggable metals that don’t include iron (bronze got nerfed somehow in game more recently, but it was added originally specifically for some lithuanian and portuguese chars who lived on islands without easy access to iron). I just want to see more creativity without all the duplication. What’s better for the game world is not the same as what’s most intuitive irl.

[Elson]

Hi :)
Imho, Cantr has to decide what is their target demographic, as "all roleplayers interested in rp-ing on the website game" includes groups of interest with radically opposing views. Take a look on these two groups - I will make serious generalizations here:

• group one wants faster gameplay (more ticks), more combat
• group two would prefer slower gameplay (ticks stay the same), would not want to get their characters killed overnight, and actually would not want to have something ruined (e.g. their character) badly without their consent

(I belong to group two mostly)

I am fine with having more ticks, better ability to kill one character with strong group of friends, and so on.
Just the fact that I have no access to game for time when I am sleeping or at work would cause me to be at some disadvantage. It's fine, just not for me.

Please do not take it as a rant or disapproval of such changes or ideas, I am extremely fine with them.

[kicking jay]

I am actually in favor of stainless steel as a less-effective, more-rust-resistant alternative to steel. 8 parts steel to 2 parts chromium and 1 part cobalt. The difficulty of obtaining the chromium and cobalt would make it valuable.

[Miedein]

Hi
Imho, Cantr has to decide what is their target demographic, as "all roleplayers interested in rp-ing on the website game" includes groups of interest with radically opposing views. Take a look on these two groups - I will make serious generalizations here:

• group one wants faster gameplay (more ticks), more combat
• group two would prefer slower gameplay (ticks stay the same), would not want to get their characters killed overnight, and actually would not want to have something ruined (e.g. their character) badly without their consent

(I belong to group two mostly)

I am fine with having more ticks, better ability to kill one character with strong group of friends, and so on.
Just the fact that I have no access to game for time when I am sleeping or at work would cause me to be at some disadvantage. It's fine, just not for me.

Please do not take it as a rant or disapproval of such changes or ideas, I am extremely fine with them.

I agree on the not wanting to be killed over night or something like that. I do however stand in favor of more ticks for travel. The world is freaking huge and with not as many people to fill the spaces it can take a really long time to get from A to B. More ticks on production as well would be nice. I know I stand among a majority of players who are waiting for that tick to come by so they can start something new and go to bed. When it comes they find themselves on 99.9% or hell even in some cases I've been at 100% and still had to wait 3 more hours to finish the project. It doesn't have to be faster. But more progress ticks would still be great.

Say like. Something now takes 1 day to complete it. That's 8 game ticks. Why not make 16 ticks in a day instead. Or 24, so it's 1 tick every RL hour. It still takes 1 day to complete. But now people with better skills can actually finish it in maybe 20 hours instead of 21 or so.