How much for the little girl?

[Oasis]

Jon, I didn't appreciate that.

And in what kind of society are there no children? This is a society simulator, thus children should exist, for it to be a true simulator. There are a lot of people in society who do not like children, refuse to be around them. So, don't be around them in this simulator either. Keep your chars away from the babies. Please.

[nitefyre]

I take back the "sense on the matter" bit, make it "more logical."

Ideally, yes, it could work. Realistically, was my argument.

And ideally, I wouldn't mind having chars with babies, but I just don't think it's in the best interest of the game.

Ive been thinking however, it might be interesting if there was some crazy cult in cantr who believed in babies, and baby making, and roleplayed, believing that they made babies...some quiet, discrete cult which is ostracized by society. Definetly interesting, IMO. Something beyond the bland religions of the land.

[the_antisocial_hermit]

For crying outloud: BUY THE SIMS! If you want a family simulator.

but in the Sims you also can kill the babies (or at least send them off to the CPS). Heck, the Sims just have a baby if they kiss too many times, doesn't matter if it's just the 'friendly kiss' or not. I always ignore the baby in the Sims; they're more trouble than they're worth. Then CPS lady comes to whisk them away, and I wall her up so she can't leave. But as for Cantr, it'd have to be done just right. And I'd only want it optional. Definitely only optional. I can't say yes or no completely, because I don't know if any of my char would ever want a child or not, at least not at this point in their lives. For all I know, they may in the future want that option... but as that option isn't actually an available option now, how would they even know that children should be an option? how can children be introduced so that IC, they know what they are? I mean, how do can one want what does not exist within their knowledge? these are a few of the questions that will have to be addressed...

[Pirog]

nitefyre>

Be careful...think about if they prevent children from playing the game. Then you are out

[Psycho Pixie]

For crying outloud: BUY THE SIMS! If you want a family simulator.

but in the Sims you also can kill the babies (or at least send them off to the CPS). Heck, the Sims just have a baby if they kiss too many times, doesn't matter if it's just the 'friendly kiss' or not. I always ignore the baby in the Sims; they're more trouble than they're worth. Then CPS lady comes to whisk them away, and I wall her up so she can't leave. But as for Cantr, it'd have to be done just right. And I'd only want it optional. Definitely only optional. I can't say yes or no completely, because I don't know if any of my char would ever want a child or not, at least not at this point in their lives. For all I know, they may in the future want that option... but as that option isn't actually an available option now, how would they even know that children should be an option? how can children be introduced so that IC, they know what they are? I mean, how do can one want what does not exist within their knowledge? these are a few of the questions that will have to be addressed...

first, lemmie say that your log on name... good choice. really.. locking the CPS people inside... sad really.

BUT!!! you have a point here. from the time I started playing, I assume before that too, a newly spawn charry didnt generally know where they came from, or how they got to cantr. people RP it that way. So, you have some logic in the idea that a charry wouldnt want kids, because they dont know what a kid is...

oddly enough, i can sooo picture the first pregnant charry being rp'd:

i dont know whats happening... my belly is getting bigger and I keep craving wierd things like popcorn and asparagus mixed together.... my feet hurt, and I cant do as much carrot harvesting as I used too either... maybe I am sick?


Psycho Pixie

[NetherSpawn]

That's already been done. Some 'Doctor' and his wife Catherine had a baby. I think it vanished in the haze of one of Jos's messages.
I'll reiterate: saying it doesn't make it true. The very same doctor pretended people had foot ailments and the wife said it was dangerous to have children play around the coal mines.
RPing is fine, but STOP RPING FALSE THINGS! It's as simple as that.
Also, since Cantr characters are spawned, as Psycho Pixie mentioned, they shouldn't be having these disturbing hallucinations about how Cantr works.
Finally, I think that almost every child would die before it reached maturity. Some nut with a weapon, or the animals, would pick off any character that was pathetically weak for too long.

[SekoETC]

Then include a protect option.

Mother says: *Wraps her arms around the child.* Don't you take my baby! Pleeease *snif* don't, don't do it, what has he ever done to you?! He's just a child for god's sake! *Her face is twisted with torment.*

Evil Bastard says: Either you drop that monster or DIE with it! There is no such thing as 'a child'! *Spits the word out as if it was poison.* We were spawned, woman, like any natural creature ought to be.

Mother says: *Straightens her back and sighs, shaking with anger.* Kill me then, for I do not let him go. Yes, kill me but you can never kill the law of nature.

You see Evil Bastard hit Baby using a sabre, killing the protector Mother instead.

Evil Bastard says: ((OOC: damn one hit per day rule, now I gotta wait till tomorrow... Now why didn't I hit the bitch first?)) *Glares at the kid who's squirming helplessly in the mud.* Just you wait, lil freak... *frown*

You hear Baby crying.

Evil Bastard says: Somebody silence that stupid brat! It ain't supposed to be! Can't stand all that noise!!

You see Evil Bastard give sabre to Buddy.

You see Buddy killing Baby using a sabre.

Evil Bastard says: Now there better not be more of them... Good thing they only take one turn to bury...

[Lumera]

Finally, I think that almost every child would die before it reached maturity. Some nut with a weapon, or the animals, would pick off any character that was pathetically weak for too long.

Actually, looking at RL history and the technology level for most of Cantr, that would be a pretty realistic outcome for most babies.

I still would rather not have kids in the game; I'll allow that Cantr may be a society simulator, but nobody said it had to simulate life on Earth. (in fact, from what I've seen most would vehemently argue against it.) Just because there are babies IRL doesn't mean we have to have them in Cantr, and in fact I don't see any IC way to introduce them; to Cantrians they'd be a bunch of hideous little deformed parasitic monsters.

What sort of 'mothering' instinct do our characters even have? If you had some slimy, screaming creature you'd never seen anything like before just come out of your own body, would you necessarily feel a desire to protect it, or would you be horrified? (Ever seen the Alien movies?) It'd be as bizarre to our characters as it would be to us if a bunch of naked twenty year olds with no memories suddenly started appearing everywhere, only at least we'd recognize them as human, and it's a scenario we have the ability to imagine, so it wouldn't be nearly as much of a shock.

The only way I'd really be completely happy with having children in the game would be if A ) they were optional, B ) they died easily, and keeping them alive took up resources and effort to make people think twice before having them until they were prepared, and C ) It happened after a friggin' reset so we wouldn't have to go through the 'hideously deformed parasite' problem mentioned above, or have to make our characters pretend like nothing had changed and it was the most natural thing in the world. If both spawning and being born were an option from day one, I think this whole thing would be simpler and less objectionable for everyone. Even I couldn't find much to complain about.

Oh, and my idea for how babies would be made:

Man and woman agree to enter into "reproduction" project, after which the woman's description is changed to, "She seems strong and is in her (whatever age). She is pregnant. She wears blah blah blah. etc."

While the woman is pregnant she needs to eat twice as much and her ability to work on projects is reduced. (To make planning ahead and stockpiling necessary, and to make sure she does the reproduction project with a guy who's going to help her out during the pregnancy. This will especially be important once food becomes harded to get.)

At any point during the pregnancy, another player who decides they want to make a baby character will be randomly assigned to the mother, though they'll have to wait until the pregnancy is finished before their character is actually created. If no player signs up before time is up, then that pregnancy just didn't work out and the couple will have to try again. (and even if it does work, maybe the mother should take a random amount of damage from having a baby; if they're not healthy at the time they'd even have a chance of dying, though the baby might survive.)

The baby is of course completely helpless, vulnerable to the weather and disease and starvation (assuming the first two have been implemented by then), and generally a pain-in-the-ass resource hog for a time, though for the sake of the person playing them they get over that fairly quickly, even though it'll be awhile before they can work on projects at the rate of an adult.

Since stats or skills are eventually supposed to be introduced, maybe (and I know this is a big maybe) while growing up kids will have the option to perform projects that increase them. It'll give them something constructive to do once child labor laws are introduced.

And if all of this sounds like it'll make things incredibly difficult, well, it's meant to. Just like IRL, babies shouldn't be made on a whim. And unlike IRL, lust or alcohol isn't around to cause poor judgement, so it actually makes sense that there won't be many "accidents" in Cantr. Also, if the whole process is tough enough, that hopefully means only longtime players and good RPers will bother to go through with it.

[Agar]

And unlike IRL, lust or alcohol isn't around to cause poor judgement

umm, yha right.

I HATE it when people are obviously cybering out on public streets.

I LOVE it when they guy cybering with the woman who is not his wife, even though his wife is standing next to him, forgets to hit the whisper button.

HAHAHHHA that one still makes me laugh!

[Cheshierekat]

While the woman is pregnant she needs to eat twice as much.

I know this is Cantr world and not real world....but the whole eating for two, and eating twice as much thing is actually a myth. That's how women gain 70-80 pounds instead of just 35-40 (and that's still on the high range). But it would make sense for the pregnant women to eat more than once a day....perhaps a little more.....but not too much more. I want cantr kids at least if cantr babies are completely rejected. Anyway, I'm tired...and about to fall down....so I'll shut up now.

[swymir]

I think the fight over this question will nevr be settled and until ac ompromise is made babies will never be added. I'm just going to repeate exactly what I said in the other 10 or so topics concerning babies.

1) (And this one has finally been realized) Cantr people are not RL people. They could be fully mature at 2 days for all we know. I think 3-5 years is good for full functions.

2)I really support babies. For te most part people put their rl beliefs into a new character whether they think so or not. Just look at Lad and how many people oppose it. If a character had parents who lived and were loyal to Lad do you think they would still try to throw a revolution every other week.

3) Cantr really does need a sence of history. If you stop looking at the immediate present and look at what children can add to the game in the future you will find that the pros definitly outweight the cons.

4) (This one is new to me) How can you say sex will demean the game when violence is so prominent in the game? It's not like when you initiate a project to reproduce it automaticly brings you to a porn site. I can almost guarentee you there isn't a single child under the age of 13 playing cantr, as I can't think of anyone that young who would look at a text-based game let alone one as involved as Cantr. Most of the kids that young who are even playing online games tend to stick to Counter-Strike and games where you blow off people's head with shotguns at point-blank range.

5) I've always supported the system of having an option to play a baby. Who says we have to make it "THE RULE". Have a little optiono nthe character creation page that says "Male/Female" then "Adult/Baby". It's that simple. If you click baby you are put into a queue and if someone wants to have a baby and there is no one in the queue well I guess they just weren't blessed with a child. No big deal.

If we stop concentrating on "have to"'s and just take the middle ground then something may finally come of this debate.

[Pirog]

I can almost guarentee you there isn't a single child under the age of 13 playing cantr...

And if there are I can almost promise you that every kid with an internet connection nowdays have seen worse things than reproduction in text based form...

[SekoETC]

LOL they sure have... So the view of protecting children might be buried already, I think that matter is handled. Nobody is going to blame Cantr to be a porno site if it has a button that says reproduce. Or even copulate. Now I'd be really happy if someone for once said they do not want kids to be implemented since being characters that cannot do so much stuff as others, must spend their minutes on rp instead, and the player in question is too lazy or cannot imagine himself in such role.

[Lumera]

I still think pregnant woment should have to eat twice as much, and I would even change my suggestion about not being able to do as much work while they're pregnant to 'not being able to do any work while they're pregnant. Of course it's not 100% realistic, nothing in any game is, but the point is to put up an obstacle to having a child; there are plenty of other ones IRL that can't be implemented, so a baby in Cantr will still be ridiculously easy to have and care for when compared to a real baby.

About the people who cyber in game, I would argue that that's completely OOC, as any hormones involved belong to the players, not the characters. Plus, I've always felt that it's bad roleplay to perform any major action while talking specifically to one person. Whispering just means no one around can hear you, it doesn't prevent people from seeing you. So if some guy wants to tell another woman about how he loves her so much more then his wife, that's fine, but there's no way they can actually have sex without blatantly exploiting a loophole in the way whispering works.

Also, I don't think it'll be as simple as just choosing to play a baby; that will only work as long as there's somebody out there who's actually pregnant. Otherwise you'd just spawn in like normal. The game will have to have some way to keep track of that, and choosing a baby if no one's making one may result in a 'Sorry, no parents are available right now' message.

Only then someone may rush out and get one of their own characters pregnant so they can control both the parent and the child, so I imagine the programmers will have to figure out a way to keep that from happening, too.

Also, if I see babies being handed iron shields and sabers to get around how weak they are, I will go ballistic.

[Nick]

About the people who cyber in game, I would argue that that's completely OOC, as any hormones involved belong to the players, not the characters. Plus, I've always felt that it's bad roleplay to perform any major action while talking specifically to one person. Whispering just means no one around can hear you, it doesn't prevent people from seeing you. So if some guy wants to tell another woman about how he loves her so much more then his wife, that's fine, but there's no way they can actually have sex without blatantly exploiting a loophole in the way whispering works.

I agree, thats why I always find a place to go, where they can be alone.