Things that annoy or puzzle you about Cantr

[bnlphan]

I've had the same complaint as Marian at times. Its frustrating to be in a newspawn position with a poor or sleepy leader.
However I agree with the others as well. I once had a charrie in control of a town full of sleepy and lazy people. So I did what any good leader would do. Pulled a Jed Clampett. Loaded up the truck and moved to Beverly Hills lol.

Sometimes its just the character also to blame. I know mitch79 has a great leader in a town. I loved the town and the people but the character decided it was time to move. I didn't have say in it.

[Marian]

The fact is, towns want their people to stick around, so it's not surprising to me that people who travel a lot have to go around doing grueling, long hours of work to get anything of value, and those that stick to towns and add substance to it, and make it unique/interesting in a progressive and positive way pretty much get set up for life.

Sadly in a lot of cases this is true, and is just another one of the ways in which Cantr society is so bass ackward. The character that sits around having imaginary tea parties all day gets everything handed to them even though they don't actually need anything to keep doing what they're doing, and the character willing to spend long boring hours sailing or on the road and long boring days gathering in a strange town or risking animal or bandit attacks in the emptier places, gets treated like crap and taken advantage of by the very town they're helping.

(unless you're playing a jerk, I love some jerks).

Actually this is an interesting point you bring up...I wouldn't have any complaints about these greedy people if only they were actually RPing being greedy old people trying to squeeze as many hours of work out of their citizens for as little pay as possible. That would actually be entertaining. Most of the time though they hardly RP at all and so I get left feeling like it's the player that's being unreasonable rather than the character themself.

btw. There is nothing you actually need from civilization, after 10 years of sleeping you can get sloop and stuff, at 40 your character is already rich, and doesn't actually need anything. So you can freely travel whoa.

I've tried this before except, my characters have personalities and it feels weird just switching their brains and then trying to pick them up again years later like nothing happened. I think slowly growing bitter and resentful at being the exploited and powerless underclass leads to more interesting possibilities anyway...

[Doug R.]

Things that my town leader has learned over 105 years:

-Every young person you give responsibility and keys to will fall asleep and die. (but she keeps trying anyway).

-The ones that spawn feeling entitled are trouble waiting to happen and should be encouraged to leave.

-If I'm sitting on a mountain of resources, and tell my people if they need anything, to just ask, none of them will ask.

-If I know my town has nothing to offer a newspawn, I'm not going to encourage them to stay, because they'll just get bored and die.

-If the newspawn announces their intent to leave, I'm not giving them anything at all beyond food.

-Old sad people can't be helped. They just stay sad and pathetic until they die.

-Sleepers that wake up occasionally can't be trusted with anything. They'll just sleep longer and wake up less, until they drop dead. When they say they feel better, don't believe them, they're lying.

-If someone enjoys doing something, encourage them to do it, even if what they're doing is pointless. Happy people make for a lively town.

-People that have someone to have sex with fall asleep less than lonely people. Encourage promiscuity but discourage the drama that can come from it.

[kaloryfer]

-If I'm sitting on a mountain of resources, and tell my people if they need anything, to just ask, none of them will ask.

Everyone should earn everything, not be given stuff. This shapes character.

[SekoETC]

Those are some very good points, Doug.

[Draco]

-If I'm sitting on a mountain of resources, and tell my people if they need anything, to just ask, none of them will ask.

Everyone should earn everything, not be given stuff. This shapes character.

I disagree. If the newspawn wants to work for the town, a couple of freebies such as some bone/stone tools, a regular shield and basic clothing, plus the promise of "upgrades" and bonuses if they prove their worth, can go a pretty long way, and from the newspawn POV, it doesn't feel like slavery (Perhaps just me, but I wouldn't trust much from a leader that told me "Well, I'm not even giving you a freaking bone shield, you work and maybe later, if I feel like it, I'll give you something", of course, not in these words )

[SumBum]

I disagree. If the newspawn wants to work for the town, a couple of freebies such as some bone/stone tools, a regular shield and basic clothing, plus the promise of "upgrades" and bonuses if they prove their worth, can go a pretty long way, and from the newspawn POV, it doesn't feel like slavery (Perhaps just me, but I wouldn't trust much from a leader that told me "Well, I'm not even giving you a freaking bone shield, you work and maybe later, if I feel like it, I'll give you something", of course, not in these words )

This is the progression I prefer, both for my own newspawns and from my "old" chars. Give the basics (bone/wood shield, bone tools, simple clothing) then see if the new char shows some ambition/trust to earn more.

[SekoETC]

I think if the town has something in excess, it's good to give to a newspawn, but usually it's not worth it to bend over backwards to make newspawns happy because 90% will either die before they reach the age of 30 or travel elsewhere. I once spawned in a town that was charging even for bone tools and I only stayed there for like one hour. Now this character works pretty much for free in another town, but he feels like he's appreciated there, so he couldn't even consider moving elsewhere.

Another town where my youngest character spawned, initially gave newspawns only cheap stuff, but once they realized she wanted to stay and be a part of the community, they started giving her pretty much everything she asked for. Now she's more well off than some of my older characters, and certainly happier.

[Marian]

Everyone should earn everything, not be given stuff. This shapes character.

Too true! Which is why I firmly believe children should be thrown naked into the streets to fend for themselves as soon as they get old enough to start giving their parents attitude. It will build character which I'm sure they'll only appreciate later in life.

[LittleSoul]

I agree with not bending over backwards, and that it's a solid move to give excess stuff to newspawns if they add something to your town (work, personality, whatever it is as long as it helps).

What I don't really understand is the pessimism in 'they'll just die under 40 years old anyways'. So what? All characters are eventually going to die, and if under those 40 years those characters added something to your town or to your chars lives then whether they're going to die early or not shouldn't even be on the radar. The important thing is that 1) they added life/work force/happiness/or interest to that town and 2) you helped make that game hopefully more enjoyable for that player so hopefully they're going to stick around cantr in general if not that character.

If they aren't doing the first one then you wouldn't consider giving them stuff in the first place, but if they are and you have excess, why not?
You catch (and trap) more flies with honey than vinegar as they say, and if the flies die soon in that honey, you can bet they were happier dying in that sweet goop than the flies who didn't get a taste.

[LittleSoul]

Everyone should earn everything, not be given stuff. This shapes character.

Too true! Which is why I firmly believe children should be thrown naked into the streets to fend for themselves as soon as they get old enough to start giving their parents attitude. It will build character which I'm sure they'll only appreciate later in life.

Doesn't getting given everything shape characters too? Playing a spoiled brat could be fun.

[NancyLee]

Doesn't getting given everything shape characters too? Playing a spoiled brat could be fun.

Ditto.

The "I won't do much because the 90% will die" sound to me like a bit of a vicious cycle, but I haven't played for as many years as Seko or Doug, so my insight is surely different. However, as I said, I do believe in try to achieve a balance and if a newspan seems to me as a "good bet" I will invest in it, I rather 10 cantr years of someone awake who does stuff and adds fun for the players in that town than keeping an unused rickshaw and some tools. You don't need to be a town leader to hand some stuff and enrich (or make more or less fun) other player's game-life.

[Marian]

I agree with not bending over backwards, and that it's a solid move to give excess stuff to newspawns if they add something to your town (work, personality, whatever it is as long as it helps).

What I don't really understand is the pessimism in 'they'll just die under 40 years old anyways'. So what? All characters are eventually going to die, and if under those 40 years those characters added something to your town or to your chars lives then whether they're going to die early or not shouldn't even be on the radar. The important thing is that 1) they added life/work force/happiness/or interest to that town and 2) you helped make that game hopefully more enjoyable for that player so hopefully they're going to stick around cantr in general if not that character.

These are my views pretty much exactly, and you said it probably better than I could.

Just going by my experiences on both sides of the issue, a little generosity and friendly encouragement to the right kind of newspawn (and you know them pretty much instantly when you see them) goes a long way towards building loyalty and goodwill. Give them the cold shoulder instead and they may still accomplish what they wanted in time, only they'll have nothing but indifference or resentment for you and your town, and you've just squandered a potential ally who in other circumstances would have been willing to do anything for you.

I mean, the average town has what, five active people? And not all of them with interests useful for keeping it running. With those kind of statistics I don't care if a new citizen may die before they're thirty, that's still nine years to make an impact.

You don't need to be a town leader to hand some stuff and enrich (or make more or less fun) other player's game-life.

Quoting this for truth as well. It's actually my main goal with at least one of my characters...town leaders are obstacles to progress? You don't need any violent revolution there, just focus on getting rich and work around them. Let all the newspawns they had no use for be loyal to you instead.

And then have the violent revolution anyway.

...nah, just kidding.

Maybe.

[Joshuamonkey]

I like most of Doug's points

If I'm sitting on a mountain of resources, and tell my people if they need anything, to just ask, none of them will ask.

And have seen this a number of times.

For example "Anyone want a afree iron shield? Just let me know."
..silence.
Some do speak up, but they seem to be very rare occasions, which is why town leaders like that won't run out of resources by giving stuff.

And I would like to add a point that I often keep in mind:
-With citizens or permanent residents, it doesn't matter how much you give them, because they'll eventually die anyway and you'll end up with the stuff again.
It's like a circle of life that I've seen so many times in Cantr.

And I should add, those few who do keep living will end up leading the town with you (if you let them) so you'll just share the same resources.

[Marian]

People that have someone to have sex with fall asleep less than lonely people. Encourage promiscuity but discourage the drama that can come from it.

I felt like this point of his needed more attention.

I've actually noticed this, it's just the part with keeping drama reigned in that most towns seem to struggle with. I think next time I get my hands on a town I'll encourage people to form relationships (or build brothels >.>) but designate a special mandatory building with no window to be used for drama of all kinds....public drama will earn the instigators increasingly stiff fines or hard labor.

And then I'll advertise this law on the radio and workers who are tired of that kind of BS will flock to me from all over.