Things that annoy or puzzle you about Cantr

[Marian]

Start a lot of projects, work a few hours each to be sure that you need a hour or two to end when you will need, when you are online.

Hmm, well that might at least solve the problem of everything seeming to finish two hours after I go to bed.

People who don't introduce themselves. Especially those who ask "who are you?" but don't offer their own name.

I think most towns just aren't strict enough anymore about hauling people who don't introduce themselves off to prison to starve, thus the younger generation no longer has the importance of it engrained into them from spawning through the morphic resonance field.*

And anyway I'm having a similar problem: My character arrives in a town, introduces themselves, absolutely nothing of note happens in the next three days, and finally an older char wakes up...and asks for their name.

And this isn't the only situation I've been in like that...it's like the whole concept of scrolling down a little ways to see what they missed is something a lot of players don't even bother with anymore.

*a cool 100% not-fake science term I just learned from a DS game, which neatly explains how Cantrians just know things. I also learned why our characters don't physically age: they are made of Ice 9.
science explains everything!

[Marian]

I know this is something that gets complained about a lot here, but wow do I get tired of greedy old people. There are characters in this game that would put the Grinch to shame.

I've seen this same scenario so many times, a newspawn pops up, they're excited and enthusiastic and willing to work and full of ideas to help the town...and all Scrooge McLeader cares about is seeing how many mind-numbing hours in a workshop they can squeeze out of them. "Oh, what's that, you want something besides a basic shield and a bone knife for yourself? Fifteen days work. Hopefully the dozens of tools we have rotting unused in storage won't all crumble away by then. Heh, now what, you want to use a vehicle, for real? So you can get the resources we've been complaining about needing? How cute. Well you're in luck because it just so happens we have at least two years worth of repairs here, why don't you get right on that while I take a nap. I mean there's five of us active and we only have 30 sloops, eight tandems, six rickshaws, and various other larger ships and cars and vans between us (that of course twenty-something scum like you should never even dream of being able to touch until the keys fall from my cold dead hands). Oh and by the way in case I wasn't clear, I don't care how friendly and helpful and awake and sincere you've been, I consider you completely untrustworthy and unfit for even the most basic responsibilities and don't mind telling you so to your face. We can't possibly risk losing even something as basic as a longboat or a rickshaw after all, are you kidding, there'd be chaos in the streets, civilization as we know it would end!"

"...huh will you look at that, they left town, or fell asleep. Tsk tsk, you just can never rely on these young people...but oh well, time for my six day nap."

[SumBum]

No offense but you seem to have a real issue with this, Marian. I've seen plenty of "old town leaders" who weren't greedy. In fact, some of them have been accused of hoarding things when they seriously have very little in storage - they give it away. Because....you know...every newspawn should automatically get an iron shield, battleaxe and car after saying hello. Get a town leader yourself, have your char work its ass off for a lifetime, then hand all your worldly possessions to every newspawn and watch them do the exact same thing: fall asleep or leave. Chars need to earn trust and they need a purpose. The ones who have accomplished all their goals tend to get sleepy.

[Marian]

No offense but you seem to have a real issue with this, Marian. I've seen plenty of "old town leaders" who weren't greedy. In fact, some of them have been accused of hoarding things when they seriously have very little in storage - they give it away. Because....you know...every newspawn should automatically get an iron shield, battleaxe and car after saying hello.

Well, I guess it may just be the same old problem of people always spawning in the wrong towns, then. I do seem to hit mostly the sleepy, greedy, inattentive ones. And even when my character is willing to stick it out and struggle on, I have to sit there and watch the next two or three people who pop after them just wither away and die.

Though there actually have been a couple of times mine have gotten encouragement and good equipment or keys in the first year and gone on to be prominent in their towns, but these kind of leaders are very rare and only makes the others look worse in comparison.

Get a town leader yourself, have your char work its ass off for a lifetime, then hand all your worldly possessions to every newspawn and watch them do the exact same thing: fall asleep or leave. Chars need to earn trust and they need a purpose. The ones who have accomplished all their goals tend to get sleepy.

I've had a few leaders, thanks, and several business owners as well...and most of them would have died to get a chance to recruit the kind of newspawns I routinely see insulted or ignored. Or at least they would have happily risked the chance of losing an often-used longbow or that one rickshaw or longboat sitting next to fifteen better vehicles they knew damn well they'd never have a reason to use, and they'd have done it without crying about how it somehow represented 'all their worldy possessions' too. If a character has good RP and well thought out plans and wants to help the town, I'm not going to immediately become offended at them daring to talk out loud about it just because they haven't reached whatever arbitrary age I feel lets them deserve to be treated like a person.

[Black Canyon]

I think I tend to agree with Sumbum on this one. I've got several town leaders and I'd say that they would love to be able to share the wealth and the responsibility. They make every attempt to do so, but for every newspawn that comes into the world active and engaged, there are five others that are either flashes in the pan for a day, complete idiots, or within few days, head off down the road to the great unknown. It becomes hard to determine who's who in the grand scheme of things.

Yes, there are the extremes. I have one guy who has lived in the same town for 30 years, doing nothing but working for the old woman who's the town leader. At most there have been no more than one or two people in the town besides himself and the woman the entire time he's been alive. He has the key to one storage room for the entire town. She's refused to give him anymore keys in spite of him asking, claiming that she doesn't want too many keys spread around And now she sleeps.

[Mitch79]

I've the other problem, I keep giving out keys and responsibilities and they don't WANT to be responsible for things!!!!!

[SumBum]

I just don't think this player attitude of entitlement is helping in-game. I've actually seen chars spawn in a town and within 10 minutes they're talking about how there should be a coup to overthrow the leadership and take all the stuff they're hoarding; making the assumption that all town leaders are sleepy and greedy. That's sadly not an exaggeration. It's completely OOCly driven for a newspawn to assume that all town leaders are hoarding craploads of stuff and not sharing it even when it's earned.

I don't look at my parents or other elders and say "you have all this wealth, give it to me" as if they never did a thing their entire life to earn it. Older Cantrians may have come into a a lot of things by simply being there to stuff things into storage after others died. They've still had a huge time investment from the players on top of all their work/effort put into gathering, trading, building for many decades. I just think it's downright shitty for a newspawn to come along and say "hey I just got here and you don't know if I plan to stay, leave, kill you...but give me all this stuff just because you aren't using it." It doesn't seem at all unfair to me that someone would ask for a new char to show a little effort to earn something.

I have several young chars that have worked for and earned things, been burned in some bad deals, been given things even without working/trading for them.... All those little variances, struggles, good fortunes, etc all make the game more interesting to me. If all my chars were given everything they wanted within the first 5 days of spawning I'd hate it. Why do you think some chars want to go off to find primitive locations where they'd have to struggle and work to survive?


And on the flip-side, some of my chars have spawned in places where they were ignored, given raw deals (work too long for too little) or otherwise mistreated. My char's personality determines how long they put up with that situation then they find a road. It's very easy to move on and find a better place.

[Marian]

I've the other problem, I keep giving out keys and responsibilities and they don't WANT to be responsible for things!!!!!

Clearly some enterprising character needs to come along and set up some kind of Inter-island Cantr Classifieds service and transport system, so we can get all the right workers to the right town leaders. I've got one about ready to start literally start auctioning herself off on the radio if things don't change soon....

I don't look at my parents or other elders and say "you have all this wealth, give it to me" as if they never did a thing their entire life to earn it. Older Cantrians may have come into a a lot of things by simply being there to stuff things into storage after others died. They've still had a huge time investment from the players on top of all their work/effort put into gathering, trading, building for many decades. I just think it's downright shitty for a newspawn to come along and say "hey I just got here and you don't know if I plan to stay, leave, kill you...but give me all this stuff just because you aren't using it." It doesn't seem at all unfair to me that someone would ask for a new char to show a little effort to earn something.

Except this isn't what I was talking about at all?

[catwill]

I've the other problem, I keep giving out keys and responsibilities and they don't WANT to be responsible for things!!!!!

Clearly some enterprising character needs to come along and set up some kind of Inter-island Cantr Classifieds service and transport system, so we can get all the right workers to the right town leaders. I've got one about ready to start literally start auctioning herself off on the radio if things don't change soon....

Actually that's sort of happening in some places, maybe not so formally but I've heard people offer their services to towns and towns very actively recruiting on the radio.

[NancyLee]

I've experienced it from several different sides too and, as newspawn, I've found leaders that make it hard for you buy anything there, although they say is on sale; supportive ones willing to help anyone who seems active and with goals; leaders that ask you to work for them for a year to earn a bone shield because you shouldn't even dream to buy one of those crumbling iron ones; people who seem so grateful that you are participative and want to do stuff that start giving you things just because... very different kinds of leaders and I don't think the "obstructive" one is the more usual in the English zone at all, at least from my experience.

I have right now one char who is wondering how the heck can correspond to feel that (s)he has earned even a tenth of what (s)he has been given.

I don't play nor want to play any townleader at the moment, but I had one for several years and, although some things were given away to just any newspawn (the town was fairly rich and well populated, so she didn't allow people going around with hides and rickety shields or unarmed unless that was their choice, be them newspawns, oldspawns or whatever's in the middle) with other things it was way more complicated for me find the balance between "enough" and "too much", since as SumBum said, some people get discouraged if getting a raker only took them one year, or getting a vehicle was as easy as "here, I can't ride my two cars at the same time so you can have one" or the "I dream to be a trader" was answered with "that building over there is unused right now, let me make you a copy key to one of the storages so you can see what do you want to trade around with and we can lend you that sloop over there".

Not all kind of leaders are the most suitable for all kind of chars, but as long as you can hit the road when you don't like something, it's all fine with me.

[Marian]

I don't play nor want to play any townleader at the moment, but I had one for several years and, although some things were given away to just any newspawn (the town was fairly rich and well populated, so she didn't allow people going around with hides and rickety shields or unarmed unless that was their choice, be them newspawns, oldspawns or whatever's in the middle) with other things it was way more complicated for me find the balance between "enough" and "too much"

Yeah, obviously I was never talking about just handing out keys and the entire contents of the storage, I'm not sure why the discussion even started going that route, but there definitely is a balance. But even then every character is different...and if 'reaching all your goals' (if that's even possible...) can be discouraging, I think being told that it'll take three or more years of mind-numbing boredom to even have a chance to take the first step would be even worse. Especially when the characters goals and dreams would all directly help the town.

Anyway, I don't know, I've just always been of the opinion that an active, helpful citizen is waaay more valuable than a few gathering tools or a longboat or whatever. In fact right now, if they'd only program it in I have a character who'd happily sell their soul and make a bonfire of every ship in town if it would somehow magically bring them just two good newspawns willing to make resource runs.

[LittleSoul]

I have a character that cooperatively leads with another and I've found it's true, you don't want to just give away things to just any newspawn, -especially- those who demand it right off the bat with an OOC assumption of leaders/or whatever.

But I've also found it's really great when you can recognize the good characters that want to stay and help the town whether they get something or not, then reward them with surprises of good equipment/what they need/etc whether they've earned it in days or not - the fact is they add personality to that town and that is worth rewarding. To me at least.

One's who sleep a lot, complain, are bossy, uncooperative, and generally making the town unpleasant by being unreasonable get next to nothing and their days of work are counted.

The fact is, towns want their people to stick around, so it's not surprising to me that people who travel a lot have to go around doing grueling, long hours of work to get anything of value, and those that stick to towns and add substance to it, and make it unique/interesting in a progressive and positive way pretty much get set up for life. I've actually found towns that do it that way are much more pleasant anyways because none of the characters with annoying attitudes or behaviors are really allowed to stick around/progress.

[Joshuamonkey]

This topic has me interested, although it's one I've seen many times.

In fact right now, if they'd only program it in I have a character who'd happily sell their soul and make a bonfire of every ship in town if it would somehow magically bring them just two good newspawns willing to make resource runs.

I strongly agree with this. Good citizens are much more valuable than resources.

I try to somehow makes things not hard too work for yet require at least effort, which for me is a win win situation. And yes, characters willing to take on responsibility would be very welcome, though I don't speak for everyone of course.

[NancyLee]

I agree a lot with what LittleSoul said, it can also be a way of "trimming" the town or direct the kind of chars you have around, well, or at least try to.

And she reminded me of something I forgot to add, that annoys me a lot and am seeing recently: newspawns demanding (and not with even good manners) to be given weapons and some stuff just because they think they should be given those, like that. I am talking about characters who spawn and half an hour later are offended if they don't have a battle axe and the precise type of clothes they asked for. I've never seen it before, but I've came across several newspawns like that recently and I'm amazed by that L'oréal "because I'm worth it" air.

True, you can't choose where you spawn, but the people there haven't choosen you either so, please, at least be polite (unless you're playing a jerk, I love some jerks).

[kaloryfer]

In this way Cantr is a perfect society simulator.
People in real life are capable of doing nonsense or inefficient things, and we have results of that in Cantr.
I have seen some towns that are very strict with regards to work, and some that have a more lax attitude (for the lack of better word). But I am starting to have a feeling that the first of group of towns has similar *players*, and the same applies to second too.
Like Marian complains, giving that rickshaw (what is it - 10 days of work?) to a newbie, with some tools could cause a lot of goodwill and possible returns - some might want to invest, some might not.

btw. There is nothing you actually need from civilization, after 10 years of sleeping you can get sloop and stuff, at 40 your character is already rich, and doesn't actually need anything. So you can freely travel whoa.