Animals

[Alladinsane]

The pack travels in single file?

[Surly]

Elephant wolves.

[Doug R.]

I'm just going to use this thread to think out loud. I was going to use a simpletext document, but then thought, why not give people the benefit of my thought process?

I see two kinds of animals - territorial ones, and migratory ones. Yes, some are both, but since Cantr is (currently) season-less, we can assume that seasonal migration is non-existent.

Territorial animals will have very low migration rates, possibly equal to their reproduction rates (since progeny would move after birth to establish their own territory.

Migratory animals would have higher migration rates.

For reproduction, it might be interesting to set the rates to the actual yearly rates for each animal. At least then there would be a rhyme and reason to it.

Given the slow-paced nature that we aspire to, it seems prudent to instead of giving dangerous animals higher attack damage, give them higher attack rates at lesser damage, or ensure a low attack rate for animals that should be incredibly dangerous. In any case, no animal should deliver damage over 32%. That would allow the most unlucky newspawn to be attacked three times in one turn and still survive.

For the wiki, each animal will have the following traits:

Migratory/Territorial
Aggressiveness
Power (as given by the best shield they can penetrate)
Fertility

I had aspired once to actually scale all animal products based on the animals sizes. This may yet happen. Let's see how obsessed I become with this.

Edit: Though, of course, since reproduction doesn't take into account actual animal # per pack, setting it to a per animal rate would be very low. Instead, maybe it should be set by median pack size.

[toon]

How often should animals migrate?

In my opinion, animals should migrate maybe once every month or so.

How often should animals attack? Let's assume a location with one aggressive species is the norm. How often should these animals attack? Wolves are the most common, so let's make wolves the gold standard.

Depends on the numbers of animals. From what I see, a common pack size is anywhere from 5 to 10 wolves. I'd say a group of 10 wolves should probably be able to attack maybe once a week and it would be different, of course, for other species.

Natural animal death was eliminated, so animals are now immortal, just like characters. How often should animals reproduce? Or, to put it another way, given a few of a species, how long should it take, given no migration and no hunting, for that species to recover in that location?

I'd agree that they should reproduce about the time they migrate.

[SumBum]

I'm not good with numbers. I'd like it to be feasible for in-game control of animal attacks (ie: if the population is kept below a certain number, the attacks are few enough to justify leaving the rest of the pack alone). Yet, if a location is meant to be harsh/wild then it would be a challenge for people to survive there (like Burgeo used to be when it was awesome). Easy, right?

[Doug R.]

Here's an opportunity for the general community to help me. For each animal, I need the following information:

Average # of progeny in a year/nomadic or territorial/range of animals in a typical group

Here is a list of all the animals currently in the DB:

deer :
hawk :
mountain goat :
pelican :
swamp snake :
desert snake :
toucan :
wild boar :
bear :
cheetah :
racoon :
turkey :
gorilla :
sheep :
lion :
desert tortoise :
rhino :
pigeon :
scarab :
elephant :
ostrich :
kangaroo :
zebra :
hippopotamus :
leopard :
coyote :
koala :
moose :
buffalo :
dog :
lemur :
lemming :
mammoth :
albatross :
bluejay :
buzzard :
condor :
eagle :
falcon :
flamingo :
blue-heron :
owl :
peacock :
penguin :
pheasant :
raven :
roadrunner :
robin :
seagull :
white-stork :
woodpecker :
redwinged-blackbird :
donkey :
weasel :
iguana :
cobra :
crab :
hamster :
mountain coati :
forest coati :
macaw :
cockatoo :
tree python :
water monitor :
do-do :
wombat :
mountain lion :
llama :
toad :
gazelle :
cape buffalo :
pygmy rhino :
giraffe :
spotted lion :
sidewinder :
mouflon :
elk :
snow leopard :
camel :
dire wolf :
squirrel :
red-tailed hawk :
white-tailed hawk :
silver pheasant :
copper pheasant :
golden pheasant :
spotted hyena :
black bear :
speckled tortoise :
quail :
black sheep :
dwarf cow :
mule deer :
jack rabbit :
striped hyena :
water buffalo :
antelope :
ocelot :
warthog :
jackrabbit :
alpaca :
rattlesnake :
dingo :
kookaburra :
bearded pig :
emu :
bushpig :
spectacled bear :
bearded vulture :
rainbow lorikeet :
golden eagle :
yak :
musk ox :
rhinoceros beetle :
stag beetle :
mastodon :
peregrine falcon :
gyrfalcon :
osprey :
grizzly bear :
cave bear :
arctic hare :
snow sheep :
prairie dog :
flat-tailed sheep :
red fox :
wisent :
grey partridge :
wildebeest :
rat :
white rhino :
sabre-toothed cat :
desert hare :
spurred tortoise :
titan beetle :
raccoon dog :
brown hare :
partridge :
angora goat :
giant deer :
black rhino :
marmot :
Badger :
crow :
axis deer :
red deer :
goat :
mountain tortoise :
giant forest hog :
bighorn sheep :
fallow deer :
gaur :
black goose :
grey fox :
caiman :
chicken :
ibex :
pika :
walrus :
orangutan :
green monkey :
jackal :
spider monkey :
kiang :
harpy eagle :
great spotted woodpecker :
eagle owl :
chamois :
blue hare :
wildcat :
aspic viper :
golden jackal :
common noctule bat :
sparrowhawk :
wood pigeon :
collared pratincole :
green toad :
marginated tortoise :
stoat :
field adder :
white donkey
greater noctule bat

Things to consider:

-Some of these animals don't exist
-Some of these animals are extinct in rl
-Some of these animals are solitary (just say so)
-Some of these animals are just variations of other animals and the data can be cloned (i.e. bear/black bear/brown bear/ cave bear)
-Animals not on this list I've already done
-This data isn't really secret. It's going into the wiki in one form or another.

I don't really expect anyone to do this legwork, but every animal researched is one I don't have to do myself

[Cdls]

I am assuming you are looking for real world values (where applicable) and not discussion as to what the values should be, am I correct?


(just wanted to clarify as if I get enough free time, I can try to help knock some of these out)

[Doug R.]

Correct. I'm not saying the final result will be the same as the RL values, but it's a place to start.

[Doug R.]

I've decided that if I haven't done this yet after all these years, I'm never going to do it.

So....

I need one reproduction and migration rate for herd animals, predators, and birds.

[Snake_byte]

A

Albatross :
Average # of progeny in a year: Gestation - 3months to 2 years. They're mates for life but mating bonds may take several yrs to form only to lay 1 egg a yr
nomadic or territorial: Territorial
range of animals in a typical group: (Colonial) A bird colony is a large congregation of individuals
interesting info: Oldest bird in the world

Alpaca :
Average # of progeny in a year: Gestation averages 355 days. Many conception complications. Though females are mature in 1 yr, act of mating and presence of seaman causes them to ovulate.
nomadic or territorial: Territorial: Territorial
range of animals in a typical group: (Herd) 3-50? maybe more?
Interesting info: Alpacas use a communal dung pile, where they do not graze. This behavior tends to limit the spread of internal parasites. Generally, males have much tidier, and fewer dung piles than females, which tend to stand in a line and all go at once. One female approaches the dung pile and begins to urinate and/or defecate, and the rest of the herd often follows.

Angora goat :
Average # of progeny in a year: Gestation is 145-150 days. Angoras breed seasonally, usually from August to January for 1 or 2 kids = 4/yr
nomadic or territorial: Nomadic? Livestock animals
range of animals in a typical group: (Herd) As large as the group can get provided they have food and aren't all killed
interesting info: Shorn twice a yr unlike sheep

Antelope :
Average # of progeny in a year: Gestation is - 235 days...
nomadic or territorial: some are sedentary but many undergo massive migrations
range of animals in a typical group: (Herd) 6-100's

Arctic hare :
Average # of progeny in a year: Gestation is 36-37 days
nomadic or territorial: Nomadic
range of animals in a typical group: (Herd) 10-120

Aspic viper :
Average # of progeny in a year: Could not find anything here. Probably similar to many other snakes or vipers
nomadic or territorial: Territorial, nesting animals
range of animals in a typical group: 1-12? Again I could not find anything but probably similar to other snakes or vipers

axis deer :
Average # of progeny in a year: Gestation period of 210-238 days
nomadic or territorial: Territorial.
range of animals in a typical group: (Herd) ranging from a few animals to 100 or more.

[Doug R.]

Angora goat :
interesting info: Shorn twice a yr unlike sheep

Interesting indeed. I'll have to make sure their wool output is doubled from sheep.

[Snake_byte]

B


Badger :
Average # of progeny in a year: gestation period of 250 days 2 to 7 young
nomadic or territorial: territorial
range of animals in a typical group: (Colonial or large group that don't travel)
interesting info: seems as if territories are not defended against other badgers, or territories overlap regularly in good habitats.

Bear :
Average # of progeny in a year: 3-4 cubs a year
nomadic or territorial: Territorial
range of animals in a typical group: (Family) 3-6

Bearded pig :
Average # of progeny in a year: Gestation 4 months/ 2-8 young per litter
nomadic or territorial: Mainly stay in one location
range of animals in a typical group: The bearded pig lives in a family (4-10)
interesting info: Have been know to follow packs of monkeys and eat their leftovers

Bearded vulture :
Average # of progeny in a year: lays one or two eggs in mid-winter which hatch at the beginning of spring which hatch between 53 and 58 days. So 2 hatchlings a yr?
nomadic or territorial: Exclusively mountainous terrain
range of animals in a typical group: In pairs
interesting info: Can swallow whole bones up to the size of a lamb's femur and its powerful digestive system quickly dissolves even large pieces

Bighorn sheep :
Average # of progeny in a year: six-month gestation
nomadic or territorial: Territorial
range of animals in a typical group: Bighorn sheep live in large flocks, and do not typically follow a single leader ram, unlike the mouflon.
Interesting info: Horns can weigh up to 30 pounds (14kg)
-------------------------------------------------------

black bear :
black goose :
black rhino :
black sheep :
blue hare :
blue-heron :
bluejay :
brown hare :
bushpig :
buffalo :
buzzard :

[Doug R.]

For the sake of expediency, I'm going to classify all animals into three reproductive categories: Fast, Medium, and Slow

At healthy levels, a Fast reproducing pack will, on average, create 6 new animals a year. Medium, 3 new animals, and Slow, 1 new animal.

If this seems too low for anyone, please speak up.

[Snake_byte]

A


Albatross :
Average # of progeny in a year: Slow
They're mates for life but mating bonds may take several yrs to form only to lay 1 egg a yr
nomadic or territorial: Territorial
range of animals in a typical group: (Colonial) A bird colony is a large congregation of individuals
interesting info: Oldest bird in the world

Alpaca :
Average # of progeny in a year: Medium
nomadic or territorial: Territorial: Territorial
range of animals in a typical group: (Herd) 3-50? maybe more?
Interesting info: Alpacas use a communal dung pile, where they do not graze. This behavior tends to limit the spread of internal parasites. Generally, males have much tidier, and fewer dung piles than females, which tend to stand in a line and all go at once. One female approaches the dung pile and begins to urinate and/or defecate, and the rest of the herd often follows.

Angora goat :
Average # of progeny in a year: Slow
nomadic or territorial: Nomadic? Livestock animals
range of animals in a typical group: (Herd) As large as the group can get provided they have food and aren't all killed
interesting info: Shorn twice a yr unlike sheep

Antelope :
Average # of progeny in a year: Medium
nomadic or territorial: some are sedentary but many undergo massive migrations
range of animals in a typical group: (Herd) 6-100's

Arctic hare :
Average # of progeny in a year: Fast
nomadic or territorial: Nomadic
range of animals in a typical group: (Herd) 10-120

Aspic viper :
Average # of progeny in a year: Fast
Could not find anything here. Probably similar to many other snakes or vipers
nomadic or territorial: Territorial, nesting animals
range of animals in a typical group: 1-12? Again I could not find anything but probably similar to other snakes or vipers

Axis deer :
Average # of progeny in a year: Medium
nomadic or territorial: Territorial.
range of animals in a typical group: (Herd) ranging from a few animals to 100 or more.

B



Badger :
Average # of progeny in a year: Medium
nomadic or territorial: territorial
range of animals in a typical group: (Colonial or large group that don't travel)
interesting info: seems as if territories are not defended against other badgers, or territories overlap regularly in good habitats.

Bear :
Average # of progeny in a year: Medium
nomadic or territorial: Territorial
range of animals in a typical group: (Family) 3-6

Bearded pig :
Average # of progeny in a year: Fast
nomadic or territorial: Mainly stay in one location
range of animals in a typical group: The bearded pig lives in a family (4-10)
interesting info: Have been know to follow packs of monkeys and eat their leftovers

Bearded vulture :
Average # of progeny in a year: Slow
nomadic or territorial: Exclusively mountainous terrain
range of animals in a typical group: In pairs
interesting info: Can swallow whole bones up to the size of a lamb's femur and its powerful digestive system quickly dissolves even large pieces

Bighorn sheep :
Average # of progeny in a year: Medium
nomadic or territorial: Territorial
range of animals in a typical group: Bighorn sheep live in large flocks, and do not typically follow a single leader ram, unlike the mouflon.
Interesting info: Horns can weigh up to 30 pounds (14kg)

[Doug R.]

Thanks. I already changed yours a while ago

It won't take me long to assign these values. I'm just looking for feedback on the rates.