Skill System Problems

[Doug R.]

I support a system where everyone starts with the same skills and objects have a certain skill level associated with them. If you have less skill than the item you're trying to make, there's a chance (based on the skill difference) of the item creation failing with a partial loss of resources. The current time advantages would be the same.

[SumBum]

That pretty well sums up what I've been wanting for a long time, Doug. I know it will be a huge job to make such a big change, though.

(I'm indifferent about random skill assignment versus everyone starting the same)

[toon]

Sounds good to me.

[Ronja Rotschopf]

I just want to state in that discussion that I (my characters) have experienced important differences of being awkward or expert at something. And that I (my characters) have also experienced significant improvement of skills (not included fighting and hunting).

This means that I don't see the necessity to fix the system.

[Henkie]

I just want to state in that discussion that I (my characters) have experienced important differences of being awkward or expert at something. And that I (my characters) have also experienced significant improvement of skills (not included fighting and hunting).

This means that I don't see the necessity to fix the system.

Someone else who states what I stated!

This motivates me enough to emphasize Ronja's statement. I have found absolutely no problems at all with the current system.

[Doug R.]

I personally greatly dislike the "genetic" element of it. The game advertises that your limit is your imagination, and then you decide to be a woodsman and spawn with horrible forestry skill. Or to be a warrior and you spawn as a terrible fighter. If the genetics took into account the current skills of your parents, it might make sense, but it takes into account their starting skills. So, if they lived in the woods their whole life and are expert foresters, their newspawn will be terrible at forestry if they themselves spawned terrible at forestry. I really dislike that skills are dictated at all. I very much think a uniform starting point that allows players to shape their own characters fits much better with role-playing mentality that has taken over Cantr the last 4-5 years. Cantr has evolved away from the current skills mechanic.

[SumBum]

I would prefer that skills were influenced by the area your chars spawned rather than the random "spawn parent" genetics. As Doug stated, your char might spawn in a forest but have "spawn parents" who are both horrible at forestry. That makes no sense to me, especially since it's based on the spawn parents' base skills rather than what they've improved. I think the environment should have more impact.

[Ronja Rotschopf]

The game advertises that your limit is your imagination...

That's of course a blatant lie but what else do you expect from advertisement?

... and then you decide to be a woodsman and spawn with horrible forestry skill...

and still you can be a woodsman. If it's just for roleplay (which can be assumed if you decide on the goals of your characters before you know their skills) it doesnt matter if he is skilled or not, you can just emote how much enthusiasm he has for his work

... Or to be a warrior and you spawn as a terrible fighter...

In my opinion fighting and strength should get handled separated from other skills anyway

Although I don't see the necessity of changing the system there are a few suggestions that wouldn't bother me (e.g. more impact of the environment, considering current skills of spawn parents, faster improvement of skills - but still "genetic", which I like because it makes the game more realistic). Much more sceptical I'm regarding the suggestion for requiring a certain skill level for being able to build a certain item. Here it depends on the items (for roleplay items like clothes, furniture etc it would be okay, imo).

[Mr. Bones]

In my opinion fighting and strength should get handled separated from other skills anyway

Although I don't see the necessity of changing the system there are a few suggestions that wouldn't bother me (e.g. more impact of the environment, considering current skills of spawn parents, faster improvement of skills - but still "genetic", which I like because it makes the game more realistic). .

Now, these are suggestions I can see improving the current skill system. I really have no issues with the current system overall, but a few tweaks like this would be good. I think the parents current skills should be passed on the newspawn. This would also make the location more relevant in determining a characters starting skill because if the parents are residents, especially long time residents their skills are going to have improved in whatever work is available there. Faster improvement of skills would be nice too, especially with fighting, hunting and strength the hardest skills to level up.

[Hedgedhogst]

I'm curious about a thought that I had some time ago.
After creating our character, but just before it is visibly spawned... What if you were shown a list of several of the skill sets from existing occupants (anonymously), and you were able to 'pick' two sets to merge into creating your own.

The outcome could still be hidden until you try your hand at them, but it would allow you to have slight control over how your skills pan out.

If parent 1 was an expert digger, and parent 2 was awkward digger, you'd most likely have efficient skill in digging.
If parent 1 was an expert hunter, and so was parent 2, you'd most likely be an expert too.

Of course, for those who don't want to know or 'pick', there would be the option for the parents being random.

What are the pros and cons to this?

[Henkie]

A con for me is the fact that you get to shape your char to an extend, and I believe very firmly that the randomness of the skills creates your chars, not at all the other way around, not even in the middle or slightly different.
The skills are random, and they should be for everyone to avoid disparity.

[Ronja Rotschopf]

In my opinion fighting and strength should get handled separated from other skills anyway

Although I don't see the necessity of changing the system there are a few suggestions that wouldn't bother me (e.g. more impact of the environment, considering current skills of spawn parents, faster improvement of skills - but still "genetic", which I like because it makes the game more realistic). .

Now, these are suggestions I can see improving the current skill system. I really have no issues with the current system overall, but a few tweaks like this would be good. I think the parents current skills should be passed on the newspawn. This would also make the location more relevant in determining a characters starting skill because if the parents are residents, especially long time residents their skills are going to have improved in whatever work is available there. Faster improvement of skills would be nice too, especially with fighting, hunting and strength the hardest skills to level up.

If this (parents current skills) would get implemented without any other tweaks it would mean that sooner or later all newspawns would be expert at everything. This would only work if there were also skill decrease of unused skills and still some randomness regarding the actual skill level. It would be different, but I doubt it would be better.

[Fingersmith]

I just want to state in that discussion that I (my characters) have experienced important differences of being awkward or expert at something. And that I (my characters) have also experienced significant improvement of skills (not included fighting and hunting).

This means that I don't see the necessity to fix the system.

Someone else who states what I stated!

This motivates me enough to emphasize Ronja's statement. I have found absolutely no problems at all with the current system.

I also like the system as it is now and wouldnt want to see it changed.

[Mr. Bones]

In my opinion fighting and strength should get handled separated from other skills anyway

Although I don't see the necessity of changing the system there are a few suggestions that wouldn't bother me (e.g. more impact of the environment, considering current skills of spawn parents, faster improvement of skills - but still "genetic", which I like because it makes the game more realistic). .

Now, these are suggestions I can see improving the current skill system. I really have no issues with the current system overall, but a few tweaks like this would be good. I think the parents current skills should be passed on the newspawn. This would also make the location more relevant in determining a characters starting skill because if the parents are residents, especially long time residents their skills are going to have improved in whatever work is available there. Faster improvement of skills would be nice too, especially with fighting, hunting and strength the hardest skills to level up.

If this (parents current skills) would get implemented without any other tweaks it would mean that sooner or later all newspawns would be expert at everything. This would only work if there were also skill decrease of unused skills and still some randomness regarding the actual skill level. It would be different, but I doubt it would be better.

Yeah, I could see that happening. It would be a slow process but it would happen eventually. Really when I think about it, there's nothing too terrible about the current system for determining starting skills. Most characters have a good proportion of skills at each skill level anyway, so I think it's fair for the most part. I do think we should be able to improve hunting, strength and fighting faster than what we can though. They are harder to work on than most skills, and there should be some better way of training them.

[toon]

The main grudge I have against the current skill system, and the thing that I have heard most expressed on here is the pointlessness of the skills in the current skill system. Yes they make a little bit of a difference, but it just doesn't really do much for most people other than provide a reason to complain/brag. Affects the amount of time, but not enough for a noticeable difference unless you jump straight from awkward to expert.