Building Destruction

[Misato]

Too bad we can't just blow the building up. I could see explosives taking a while to make, and it could be a usable item in the demolition process. That way you don't have the giant wrecking ball in place of the unwanted building...never gonna happen I'm sure, but it amuses me to imagine.

[NostalgicMelody7]

Maybe a specific item labeled "Building Dynamite" And it's impossible to use it as a weapon and stuff. I love this idea, Misato. +1

[Misato]

Maybe a specific item labeled "Building Dynamite" And it's impossible to use it as a weapon and stuff. I love this idea, Misato. +1

I dunno what resources it would need, if any...it could just be a circuit board and wires kinda thing. *shrug* I dunno how explosives work. lol

[Doug R.]

It's been suggested that crowbars and possibly sledgehammers are required to tear down buildings. The issue of having the key is somewhat irrelevant since someone with a crowbar could just break the lock. I think the best way to make this idea undesirable for random "vandalism" or theft is to make the resources returned minimal and give it a long enough project time that a structure wouldn't be torn down in just a few days.

This. From what I've seen so far, the two key issues are 1) the danger of making tearing down building too profitable and 2) the danger of making tearing down buildings easier than busting all the locks inside.

These are both easily addressed, and will be addressed.

[Fingersmith]

I have a couple more question-concerns regarding destruction times.

1) A stone building takes 28 days to build but only a few days to gather the stone . Whereas a brick building only takes 5 days to build but more than a year to gather the clay and make bricks out of it. And a log building only takes 1 day to build but about 2 years to gather the timber and turn it into logs Should those 'prepair' time be taken into consideration at destruction time or will the log building be able to be down in just a few hours?

2)Suppose we have a stone building and inside a shack as a room-idependent structure and suppose we have a shack and inside it a stone building as a room-independent structure . Both complexes have the exact same resources and building times , will they take both the same time to destruct or will the one with the shack on the outside fall first?

3)You see a locked building and you really dont know whats inside . Now if you start a destruction project it will turn out a message like 'so many days to destruct ...so many resources to get from it' ...isn't that a way for someone to exploit the system and having a sneak peak of approximately whats the real value of anything inside the building , and so decide if it is worth the risk of then starting a breaking lock project or not?

[Majix]

I think what's inside the house should disappear when the building is torn down. Vanish. Get crushed. Maybe you could find a tiny piece of something that was inside. A piece of a plate. The corner of a shield. Half a hilt.

[theredbarons]

I like the idea of being able to tear some things down but like a few others have said I think it'd radically change the game especially in terms of fighting. It'd be great if you're chasing someone and they're hiding for you to just tear the building down but on the opposite side of that coin it'd be super annoying if you're hiding in your awesome castle ruling with an evil iron fist and suddenly its gone. (these points have been made before I think, but hold on! I'm getting somewhere...I think)
Perhaps different materials take different time lengths to tear down. So if you have a mud shack versus a few sledgehammers, its not going to take that long and you have a higher chance of breaking it. But if something is made of wood or stone, the chances of breaking it down, the time, etc. are all much lower. Perhaps buildings made out of materials of immense durability like stone can't be broken down at all while other structures made out of things like mud can.

[Rumaan]

How about having buildings crumble naturally at a small rate? Crumbling could cause a portion of the resources to be returned to the town square. The buildings could also be repaired.

Another suggestion: Explosives could be used to cause some damage to a building. If a building is completely destroyed, the machinery and resources could be salvaged from the rubble and moved within a certain time frame. This gives a clear motivation to destroy buildings - why spend years to collect and build machines when you can go to the next town, destroy a few buildings and salvage the machinery?

[Rumaan]

Also, locate the resources required to make explosives only on islands with substantial populations and not anywhere near the coasts. So, hopefully, the poor chars in tough conditions are not severely affected by explosives.

[theredbarons]

This is how the idea of dynamite makes me and my characters feel.

[Surly]

How about having buildings crumble naturally at a small rate? Crumbling could cause a portion of the resources to be returned to the town square. The buildings could also be repaired.

We had the endless repairing issue when item rot was implemented. I don't think it has really added anything to the game, and has cost us players. That was not a good advert for expanding the system to buildings.

Perhaps a way around (at least cut down) random vandalism would be to make only a key holder be able to start to demolish... something like that?

What about abandoned towns, though? Like, ones that have been abandoned for 1000+ years, and the keys are lost forever? And then there are buildings that don't have locks to begin with...

All locks can be destroyed by someone with a crowbar and/or a screwdriver.

I'd say you can't destroy a building with a lock. That would stop most random vandalism.

[guilletierno]

i think in 2 way to destroy (or not) a building.

project: dismantle marble building or marble room
just can be started inside a marble building or marble room (without a lock?)

tools
[*]sledgehammer
[*]pickaxe
[*]chisel
[*]hammer

time: ?
result:
[*]75% of marble used on make that building
[*]Building is converted in "ruins of a marble building or marble room", a build like a cage, with communication between inside and outside, can't hold a lock.

project: knock down a cottage or ruin of a cotagge
is started outside of the cottage
cottage have not interior rooms

tools
[*]hammer
[*]chisel
[*]crowbar

time:?
Result:
[*]25% of materials used for construction (or 8% of the total in a ruin)
[*]building or ruin is vanished

tools will be chosen accordingly to the kind of material that the building was built

wood=> hammer, chisel and crowbar
stone, brick or marble=> hammer, chisel, sledgehammer, pickaxe
for shacks or huts=> knife
cage=> smith tools, sledgehammer, file, bellows and a small volume of coal/charcoal

[Snake_byte]

I have a couple more question-concerns regarding destruction times.

1) A stone building takes 28 days to build but only a few days to gather the stone . Whereas a brick building only takes 5 days to build but more than a year to gather the clay and make bricks out of it. And a log building only takes 1 day to build but about 2 years to gather the timber and turn it into logs Should those 'prepare' time be taken into consideration at destruction time or will the log building be able to be down in just a few hours?

2)Suppose we have a stone building and inside a shack as a room-independent structure and suppose we have a shack and inside it a stone building as a room-independent structure . Both complexes have the exact same resources and building times , will they take both the same time to destruct or will the one with the shack on the outside fall first?

3)You see a locked building and you really don't know whats inside . Now if you start a destruction project it will turn out a message like 'so many days to destruct ...so many resources to get from it' ...isn't that a way for someone to exploit the system and having a sneak peak of approximately whats the real value of anything inside the building , and so decide if it is worth the risk of then starting a breaking lock project or not?

1- This is assuming the character is working alone and that the resources are readily available in one town? In my opinion (much as already established), Duration of the Dismantling should Depend on:

A) The total weight of said COMPLETED building/room when EMPTY OR the total amount of resource it takes to build it.

B) PERCENTAGE of Total time it takes for one person to build it.

Such as: Time= 15% of time needed to make that building/room + 1 Cantr hour for every 1000 grams of resource needed to build it OR Finished building weight.

Using the above idea, I quote guilletierno's idea but with a few changes:

EX. Stone Hall

Manufacturing A Stone Hall
Object type: Buildings
Skill used: Building
Time: 50 day(s)
Materials: 50.000 grams of stone
Tools: iron, bronze or wooden trowel

Dismantling A Stone Hall
Manufacturing A Stone Hall
Object type: Buildings
Skill used: None
Time To Build: 50 day(s) X .15 = 7.5 Days <---Calculation #1
Materials: 50.000 grams of stone / 1000 = 50 Cantr hours / 8 Cantr hrs per day = 6.25 <---Calculation #2
Time To Dismantle: 13.75 days for one person (Give me 2 weeks alone, pretty sure I can destroy a crude stone hall)
Tools: Sledgehammer, Pickaxe, Chisel, Hammer, Crowbar

When the Dismantling Project is finished the building drops all characters, loose resources, items, and notes to the parent location and is then converted into a container (Generic "Pile of Rubble" or "Ruins" ). Where the user can retrieve 25% of resources used in construction (if user wishes). Then these "Ruins" or "Pile of Rubble" can then be buried like a dead body (With or Without retrieving the "Rubble/Ruins" resource).
Machines and stationary/unmovable objects will be destroyed without resource recovery and all projects will be erased.

If said building has rooms or extensions inside, The dismantling equation would then also take them into account.

Actual Dismantling of buildings would not actually occur until project is 100% completed as this can keep the project cancel-able. Though not really cancelled, but reversible up until 100% with a repair project.

2- They would be destroyed at the same time assuming they have the same amount of character's working on it.

3- Beginning the project shouldn't indicate what, who, and how many whatever is inside. Nor how much the user will get when the project is complete

Notes:
-As you can see in the example above, I also think that much like road improving, this particular project probably shouldn't have any skill attached to it.
-Project can only be started from outside the room or building you would like to dismantle.
-Building can be repaired from inside but not while the project to dismantle is currently being worked on and vise-versa.

Edited extensively to reflect Doug's mentions of people being moved to the parent location the first post and "Notes" section. Thanks.

[danizappa]

Nice process description Guilletierno!

[Andu]

Is it possible to implement demolition of buildings for empty buildings only, maybe even just for the wood, mud, grass and bone variants, then later work out working system to destroy buildings with items and rooms?

My suggestion:

1.One can destroy a building made of lesser material only
2.It has to be empty of items, machinery, rooms, people, locks and projects before a project can be started.(as far as I know, completely emptying a building is possible)
3.It requires some tools(duh)
4.A event is created, similar to lock picking.(You see man in his twenties starting to tear down Me Bonehut(a brand new bone hut))
5.If no.2 is altered(by entering the building, leaving things inside) the project can't be worked on before the building is completely empty again.
6.When the project is finished, some amount of building material appears on the ground as a byproduct.(like 60% or something)

When this is done, this is partially implemented, and we can continue working out how to fully implement this feature.