Religions

[Joshuamonkey]

Actually, the Jewish view of punishment in the afterlife (Which is almost never, never, eternal) is pretty much just that -- a simple removal of the soul for a period of time from closeness with God. That is torture enough for the soul, which longs to be with its creator. We don't have the concept of a separate district called "Hell".

I agree to that in a sense (including the not eternal part). From what I've learned, the misery comes from being "cut off" from God.

[Comy]

I had a professor suggest to me once that I should be aware of various details of Christian mythology (and that I should have some sort of prayer memorized) and I just don't understand why. She tried to argue that it's culturally necessary, but it's not.

I'm always surprised if people aren't passingly familiar with Greek mythology, but I don't think it's necessary to know anything about it. My first and middle names were drawn from it, so I picked up the interest from my mother.

[RedQueen.exe]

I'd ask him to define what culturally necessary means. It might help you understand why certain people feel the need to take certain rights away from other people, but that understanding doesn't justify it anyway. It is useful for understanding at lot of people if you live in the US or Europe, and make a lot of news stories suddenly make sense - but it just knowing that some people are taking a certain action because they feel their religion tells them to is sufficient, and not necessarily the exact reasons themselves unless you feel like getting into arguments with believers.

I wonder if he would say the same thing about eastern philosophies and religions, or does he feel it is only necessary to understand the events in our own region of the world at that level?

[Comy]

That's how I've always seen it, RQ. Knowing that something is religiously motivated is enough for me; I don't need to understand specifics.

I doubt she'd make the same argument for any other philosophy or religion. Her stance was basically that everyone should know about her mythology because it's so important or maybe that it's impossible to function in American culture without that knowledge.

[RedQueen.exe]

Hard for me to say, since I have that knowledge, but I wouldn't think its necessary.

I was raised Catholic, even went through the trouble of getting confirmed. I have always had a strong interest in science, and was determined to find something supporting at least the notion of a higher power/intelligence. I argued about it in, of all places, a video game forum (different one) with the token local open atheist. We had some pretty heated (you've seen my style, he was more or less similar ) back and forth, but he at least made the comment that I seemed to have a better grip on science than the other believers he argued with.

At the same time, I was shooting down some fellow believers that were wandering into the thread that were taking a similar stance, but with what I felt were really sloppy arguments that I didn't want to be associated with. I wound up taking an interest in the debate as a whole (intelligent design vs modern biology, primarily). It took probably four or five years before I eventually both came to the realization that there WERE no good arguments in favor and came to accept the argument that beliefs in things I could not support meant which of those things I chose to believe versus others was completely arbitrary.

So there's an additional bunch of useless information you didn't need. Back to the point though, I never felt that that knowledge has really helped me much, other than knowing why people were protesting something before reading why later in the article and arguing with believers, which I almost never do now anyway.

I think you can probably get along fine without it, and your professor was thinking you need it to understand other people's motivations. People have all kinds of motivations, very few of which we understand. Typically, religious motivations are called out specifically in any article covering news stemming from them anyway.

I do think though, that coming from a religious background makes people more likely to be better atheists. It can probably make them more likely to understand why people are and remain religious and less likely to think that believers are just stupid, which I don't think is an accurate or helpful way to look at it. It's certainly not necessary in order to have that kind of view though, either.

[SekoETC]

It's foretold in the Bible that there will be a time when one can't sell or buy anything unless they have the name or the number of the Beast on their hand or forehead. But all the people who take the marking are doomed. That's why it would be good to know about it. Some believe it's some sort of a surgically embedded microchip that will be connected to your bank account. And I think I read that all barcodes include 666. That's why some people refuse to buy or use anything with barcodes, which rules out most things.

Googling for barcode 666 brings up several hits, here's one of them: http://www.rense.com/general20/666.htm

[curious]

I'm not a believer in 'a' God in the sense that here could be an antithesis to it, but there are also doubts that (if there is a number) it depends on which language the translation of the myth is from.
Try 616... this is also used to represent (figuratively) how 'man' may come to know the 'beast'

On a lighter note... you used to be able to get a T-Shirt with:
"667 - The Neighbour of the Beast" on it.

[Henkie]

I still wonder why a thing made by god who never interferes with humans as a rule would make a book that's supposed to guide us...

[RedQueen.exe]

I still wonder why a thing made by god who never interferes with humans as a rule would make a book that's supposed to guide us...

I've been wondering for a while now how you can simultaneously say that we can't give you proof, because God wants you to have faith without clear-cut evidence, yet at the same time we're going to say you had enough evidence to have no excuse for NOT believing. lol

So, Robert G. Ingersoll had some of my favorite quotations ever about the immorality of the very idea of hell and the demand for faith, and if this conversation keeps up, I'm going to be forced to pull some of my favorite gems out.

Oh, and I'm almost finished with the reply to your PM, at long last!

Edit: changed "believing" to "NOT believing". Kind of an important difference.

[Comy]

So there's an additional bunch of useless information you didn't need.

I love useless information, especially coming from interesting people. <3

You take a much more tolerant view of my professor than I do, so I'm going to adopt your reasoning because it's less baffling.

[RedQueen.exe]

You take a much more tolerant view of my professor than I do, so I'm going to adopt your reasoning because it's less baffling.

I find people less annoying if you just assume they just haven't really thought about what they're saying and/or how they're coming across. It's amazing how much less bothersome it is when you don't think their actual effect was on purpose.

[gejyspa]

Great quote, Comy! You should use the second half as a .sig line! (played it for more than twenty years, including one campaign that lasted seven years)

As for your professor and Xtianity, assuming you live in the US (or really anywhere in the Western Hemipshere south of Canada (and maybe even there), or in Western Europe), I'd say your professor was correct. And as I've said before (in the Religions thread. We do have one, you know ), I'm surprised you've managed to avoid it. Okay, I may be weird, because I was a religion minor, but I've stepped foot in church I think maybe twice in my life (both times for weddings), but I've had a familiarity with Xtian beliefs, the parables of the gospels, etc. even before I'd taken courses in it. Television and other media pretty much take it for granted that you do.

RotD: Gad! Another tour group through the building I work in! Okay, yes, it's new, and huge and shiny, but really? Continuous tours? I'm beginning to feel like the Amish. ("Ooh! See those quaint people over there? They are New Buildingers. They have strange customs. Try not to disturb them as they go about their daily routine. Oh, look over there! One of them is milking a medical records computer....")

[RedQueen.exe]

Would you then not say one should have an understanding of Muslim beliefs, since those beliefs influence current events around the world so heavily? If not, it seems like a strange double-standard.

I think it is probably more important to understand the religious beliefs of minority religions in your region of the world than the ones of the majority, because the majority religions in an area usually have no trouble expressing exactly when and how something offends those widely held beliefs. Religions that are in the minority where your news is coming from may have more trouble getting those details into the news reporting due to a lack of people in the newsroom that have an understanding of those beliefs.

But yes, I do find it a little strange one living in those regions wouldn't just pick it up over time. Like I said, since I do feel like I have a pretty firm grasp on that knowledge myself, it is kind of hard for me to say - I may just not be realizing how often it comes in handy.

[gejyspa]

What I am suggesting, RQ, is that *cultural literacy* (which was what the professor was talking about) requires you to have a knowledge of the majority religion and the way it shaped and continues to shape the country you live in, in the same way you should understand the major historical events of your country, the important landmarks (Artifical and natural) of your country, its artists and performers (current and past), majority language (inlcuding slang), and political system. And all that stuff can be observed through basically osmosis of living there.

Should you also understand about other cultures and countries and ethnicities not your own? Of course, but that's for its own sake, just like Math, Science, etc. and can not be just "picked up" here and there. And yes, news reporting does have the responsibility of accurately explaining the things that people don't just "know" (of course, I have a good grounding in understanding Islam, too, for the same reason as before -- religion minor. But I don't expect everyone to, just like I don't expect them to understand my Orthodox Judaism. But I'm always happy to explain).

[Henkie]

Religion is fine. Implementing religion is where it always goes wrong...