Thought or Rant of the day!!!

[MelloYell]

as far as i am aware, where i live, it is illegal to use a recording of a conversation as proof unless everyone present was aware they were being recorded.

i am prepared to find work, but in my line of work, i would have to be here until july, or jobless until july. this is why her being confronted right now could be a bad thing. her getting mad at me could result in a miserable 8 months.....8 months in which she could find every excuse in the book to write me up time and time again, to go in my permanent file.

im terrible at net research and not even sure if i could find this on the net. i do not wish to be associated with it, but i cant be jobless until july. i have bills to pay and mouths to feed, and no money saved up (im young and make enough to work paycheck to paycheck right now).

also, problem with the witnesses is that all of our meetings have been behind closed doors in her office, just me and her present. its basically my word against hers.

i did contact the highers up about 30 minutes ago though. asked to talk to the "top dog", but he wasnt available. gave them my number and now its just a waiting game. i plan on asking if the directive was given by them or not. i dont know if i should call the union while i wait, or call them now.

and if the "top dog" -did- give the directive, what to do then? of course, chances are, if they did give the directive to my boss, they wont want to admit it either. *sighs*

sorry....just in a pickle, frustrated, and not knowing how to handle it because im young, have little life experience, and im the type to avoid confrontation.

[Ronja Rotschopf]

Do you have colleagues? Do you know if they are in the same situation?

If the "top dogs" don't admit that they gave that directive, you could ask them for support/advise, imo. And if they gave it, you should try to explain why you can't do what they want.

[MelloYell]

i do have colleagues, but as far as i am aware, none of them are in the same position. my position is unique due to a screwup by the top dogs and poor planning by them as well. the position is one that cant be helped, and unfortunately im the only one stuck in the position. basically, the top dogs decided they were going to try a whole new way of doing things this year, and at the same time decided they would use new resources. but the resources cant come in until next year, so i am the only one working here that ended up not having the resources i should have for my job. every other employee eventually ended up with what they needed.

this position is being used as a crutch for the directive. so if the directive did come from the top dogs, they wont want to admit that they are trying to cover their butts for their mistake that left me without resources.

[Sunni Daez]

Well, you need to do what you need to do to survive. If standing up for your morals causes you to be jobless, and you cannot be in that financial situation, then you may have to compromise yourself. Maybe ask your boss if there is an alternative way that this can be done without compromising values. Tell the boss you are very much interested in completing your task, you are just wanting to find a way to do so with out compromising values.

[Doug R.]

as far as i am aware, where i live, it is illegal to use a recording of a conversation as proof unless everyone present was aware they were being recorded.

I would check into this. As far as I was aware, it's illegal for the government (police) to record you without your consent or a warrant. However, I think it's perfectly fine for you to record someone else without their knowledge. It may not be admissible in criminal court, but I'm willing to bet it would be admissible in civil court.

Take a look at this article as a starting point: http://legallad.quickanddirtytips.com/t ... tions.aspx

[Doug R.]

i dont know if i should call the union while i wait, or call them now.

Imo, you should have done this as soon as you had problems. I generally don't like unions, but covering their members assess is one function you should take advantage of.

[Chris]

As a general rule, recording either (1) has to be done in a public place or other situation where there is no expectation of privacy or (2) with consent. So it would probably be breaking the law to record a boss in a one-on-one meeting in her office.

Maybe you could start an email conversation. Hey, I need to be sure that I understand what you told me to do on Monday: X, Y, and Z. Or am I supposed to X, Z, and then Y? If she replies and doesn't deny giving the order, then you have it in writing.

It's probably best to consult a lawyer because what you were ordered to do may be illegal.

[curious]

Morals have little to do with contractual obligations. (consider joining the army, for instance)
If what you are being asked to do is outside of your contractual obligations, or can be demonstrated as such via precedent, then you have a case.

Past the signing of a contract, there is no conscientious objection.

Go to your union, like yesterday. They offer more than advice, they will also offer insurances against the disciplinary abuses of employers.

[edit] Oh.. btw, a verbatim conversation is also evidence, and regardless of th existence of a recording of it, can be tabled, and the onus of disproof is on them... not you.

[MelloYell]

thanks for all the good advice. im pretty sure i cant get my boss to give me the directive via email though because as far as she is concerned, i told her i wont do it and im not backing off my stand. so if i just asked for clarification via email, i doubt she would send it. however, im going to try and find a way to get her to give it to me in writing anyways.

as for recording, thanks for the article doug. im still a bit foggy on the issue, but im going to try and figure it out.

i did call the union and talked with the president. he was utterly shocked and has asked me to write everything up. he said that my boss actually has several grievances against her, and it wouldnt take much to remove her from her job. he said that the best i can do is not to talk with her, and told me it is my right to refuse to conference with her without a union member present. he said that he doesnt want to file a grievance yet even though i have enough to do so, because hes hoping if she continues her harassment, he can have union members talk to her personally, and put that in a grievance for witness.

ive written up the letter of everything that has happened, but not so sure if ive used the most beneficial wording or not. anyone with experience that wants to help me make it better...please send me a pm! lol im not the best at wording things aggressively or professionally.

to curious, what do you mean by this?

Oh.. btw, a verbatim conversation is also evidence, and regardless of th existence of a recording of it, can be tabled, and the onus of disproof is on them... not you.

you mean that i can type up the conversation to the best of my ability and give that to them?

im very nervous about giving my letter to the union because im non confrontational and im terrified of being on the boss (excuse my language) shit list for the rest of the year until i can find employment elsewhere.

[Sunni Daez]

im very nervous about giving my letter to the union because im non confrontational and im terrified of being on the boss (excuse my language) shit list for the rest of the year until i can find employment elsewhere.

But see, you are not being confrontational, the union will do that. You were already told if the boss continues to harass you, they will step in. Just take it all with a long slow deep breath.

as for conversations, yes, document all you remember about them.

[curious]

Yes, that's what I mean. Just write them up as you recall them taking place, with caveats, explaining the areas you are uncertain about, if any. Make sure the caveats explain that you are only uncertain of wording, and that you are completely comfortable with 'meaning'... i.e., You are confident that you fully understood what was being asked.

I don't know about the US, but UK unions are very militant still, and very aggressive in their pursuit of injustice (This, no doubt is why some are mistrustful of them), but they are still 'your' representative, and have to listen to how you wish to proceed.

A deep breath is good advice, and be prepared for this to fizzle away, with everyone walking away a little disgruntled, but, if it goes to anything bigger, make sure, if you feel you have been bullied, to use that very word when you write up your side. It's a very powerful word in terms of employee experience.

[curious]

Well that was a topic killer...

[New Rant] Builders... specifically roofers... and specifically thatchers..!! ffs... get a grip and do your bloody job..!! [/Rant]

[MelloYell]

didnt mean to kill the topic. xD

i wrote up a long four page letter of the things the boss has been doing and asking of me. talked to the union guy, and he talked to someone above even who i was going to talk to. i didnt know there was anyone nearby that was above the guy i was going to talk to.

apparently, this top top dog knew who i was and thinks im one of the best at my job (:shock:) while i have no idea who he is. anyways, he was astounded at my letter, and told the union president that three of my coworkers had actually called about the way the boss was treating me. never knew that either. so the top top dog is going to be visiting my boss and telling her to stop harassing me. if she asks me to do one more thing, or gives me a hard time one more time, she will most likely lose her job.

all in all, im so greatly relieved. i was scared about giving the union president my letter, but he said the contents shocked everyone, and seeing as hes doing the confrontational stuff for me, i feel much much better and more comfortable. he also told me that everyone has my back. yesterday was the first day in about a month and a half where i actually enjoyed being at my job again. : )

i am still worried about now being on the boss crap list, but at least she wont be asking me to do dishonest and immoral things.

[Doug R.]

so the top top dog is going to be visiting my boss and telling her to stop harassing me. if she asks me to do one more thing, or gives me a hard time one more time, she will most likely lose her job.

Of course she will. If this directive was handed down to her by the higher-ups, she obviously handled it in an unsatisfactory manner that allowed the cat to be let out of the bag. The Administration will do what it takes to get the union off their back, even if that means hanging your boss out to dry. All in all, everyone wins for now (except your boss), but take the flattery with a grain of salt. You may deserve it, but it could be disingenuous.

Sorry if I sound cynical, but the world is a cynical and very political place. It's best to be cautious at all times.

[MelloYell]

oh trust me, youre being every bit as cynical about the compliment as i was. i dont even know who the man was, and once i was told he visited me once and i realized who it was....i also realized the man had nothing to judge my job performance on except for the word of others.

its all politics, and i hate politics. i was terrified of being dragged into some big scandal, since i seem to be the center of blame for this. not that i should be in that spot, but in that the top dogs are funneling this stuff onto my boss, who is funneling it onto me.