A Severe Annoyance & a Modest Proposal as a Solution

[IvanicDiazinum]

*he sighs*

So, I'm a relatively new player. My experience thus far has been largely positive and I think it's safe to say I'm addicted to Cantr. It's really unique among online multiplayer games, I don't think I'll stop playing because of anything silly like this, it's just something that is annoying.

Two of my more recent chars have experienced by first encounter with what I will hereby refer to as "txt players" (like English or Spanish players).

I'm sure many of you know the type. Chars who use little to no punctuation or capitalization, and often their "speech" is full of spelling and grammatical errors. Worse is when they lack even a basic understanding of roleplay. I don't just mean they lack imagination, I mean something like:[ X says, "Wispers * ok what do I do"] (real example ). You get the idea. I'm finding more of these, so far fortunately only two chars of mine have ever seen this, but it's often and pervasive enough to be a serious bother.

It's not just me whining about perfection, it disrupts smooth roleplay when chars do this. Especially annoying is that I just don't have any idea how to deal with it. Can my chars even respond to spelling mistakes? Seems like it shouldn't, right? Since it's just there in text, your char would just "hear" it as intended. So I've wondered if it would make sense for a char to "hear" a poorly written sentence full of errors as being spoken oddly, as if by a person with a bad speech impediment or is simply retarded (I intend no offense to anyone with mental disorders/differences here and I apologize if this is a bad choice of words, but it is what I mean). Would that be at all appropriate, or am I supposed to ignore it entirely?

Then there's not just what it is, but what it leaves out. A recent newspawn who spoke in "txt", immediately after spawning and stating their name, asked for "100 grams of small bones plz", searched for the desired items in various buildings, and was eventually locked up for stealing materials and beginning a building project with it. Perhaps it's just my limited experience with these kinds of players, but those whom I have seen speak that way completely disregard the general style of the game and choose to play it like more traditional RPGs where player-driven roleplay is not an important part of the game, if at all present. Consequently, they create empty chars who do senseless work, take what they want, or ask for it to be given to them, but other than being annoying pests are entirely lacking of personality.

So, more of a question really, but... the proposal: should I just have my chars become annoyed naturally at these people and deal with them as they would? That is, if I have a char who has a short temper, is it a good idea to let him kill a char simply for being a txt player and otherwise generally noobish?

I have to wonder, are these always new players who just don't understand the game? Or are some of them permanent players who stay with it, never actually understanding the nature of the game they're playing? I'm desperately hoping they're just new players, that way eventually they'll go away. Well, anyway, that's all my thoughts on the matter for now, what do all of you think?

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I usually just ignore them if they continually prove themselves not to be catching on. Eventually they die off anyway.

To clarify what I mean: I'll give them a chance to learn and grow and maybe get at least modestly better, but if they continue to do text speech/terrible grammar without proving that there's some mettle in the character they're playing, then I just kinda go, "meh" and let other players ignore/deal with them. To me, though I hate seeing such writing as text speech in a game like this (and I used to be a far worse grammar Nazi), the most important thing is what is behind the character, if it shows that it is driven and has something substantial to it.

Now if I have an irritable character, their manner of speaking and acting may make the character a bit more irritable... but generally I won't kill them over that solely.

[Miri]

Don't bother with them.
If they become too much of a hussle, just have them killed for IG reasons. Sooner or later they get bored / learn that this may be just not quite the game they'd like to play.

... but those whom I have seen speak that way completely disregard the general style of the game and choose to play it like more traditional RPGs where player-driven roleplay is not an important part of the game, if at all present.

*coughcoughcough* ...what!?
If you mean MMOs, or cRPGs, or sim-sanboxes - the are not even close to -traditional- RPGs, except of maybe some extremely plot-bloat cRPGs, like old good BGs or Fallouts or P:T - but even with these it depends on your playstyle. I would say cantr is closer to a traditional RPG than them, as a the most traditional RPG is P&P, and what it is about is Roleplay.

[Wolfsong]

People who spell poorly, abbreviate words, and otherwise speak in 'txt' are usually one of two things: newbies or trolls attempting to look like newbies. The difference is - or can be - hard to spot: trolls don't stick around for very long, grow bored, and move on; newbies, however, have the potential to stick around, and not only stick around but grow into mature, valued members of the community. The trick? Patience. Many people who join games like these (I'm including MUSH and RPI MUD here) don't really understand the difference between IC and OOC - hell, most people who play Cantr II right now barely understand that difference. But newbies are more obvious about it; it's not that they want to piss you off, it's merely that they don't know how to act, and haven't seen enough yet to get an idea of proper RPG etiquette. For example, I was playing a RPI MUD some time ago, in a clan generally called "for new players" - whether or not it actually was is still up for debate, but we did get a large crop of newbies coming and going, and some of them were very, very fresh.

An example:

The (redacted) young man says, in sirihish:
"this may seem funny, but im not sure how to give you my money"

Most people would probably have ignored players like these, and these players would have gradually stopped logging into their characters and drifted elsewhere. No harm done, the playerbase could afford to lose them. Some people, however, would stop and try to help that new player in as many ways as they could - and that player would stick around, and their character would gradually fit in, and maybe die, but they'd make another, and they'd keep playing, and one day several years in the future, they'd do the same thing (or wouldn't) for new players they saw in the game.

The trick, again, is patience - more specifically, though, the trick is focus. In order to curb that chatspeak, you have to drill with them constantly, provide yourself as a better example to them of how to play, and constantly correct them (but not always sternly) when they do something wrong. You have to teach them that proper punctuation and spelling (something many current Cantr II veterans still ignore, though you could chalk that up to second language bias) will get them more things than bad spelling - you have to think like they do, get inside their heads. All newbies are Ash Ketchem, and you have to play Professor to their unbridled ambition. If they want weapons and houses and things like that, dangle it in front of their faces, but constantly show them (through IC, if at all possible) that people who play characters will get more than people who play themselves in avatar form (again, this is difficult because many veterans just play the same character over and over, and newbies learn bad habits from watching them.)

Now, me personally - I used to get people on AIM or some instant message service and walk them through how to play, play-by-play, until they understood the basics. That made using OOC messages needless, which can be a good thing because frequent OOC (OOC: how do i open doors how do i etc.) can disrupt RP as much as anything else can, and it also made it easier to connect and brainwash newbies. (See below for how to brainwash newbies.)

Don't lecture them strictly, though. At the risk of making wild conjectures - people don't play games like these for the "stuff" they can get, not at the heart of things. They might want stuff, and there are plenty of veteran players who measure success in how much stuff their characters have, but at the heart of it all, people want group acceptance and to feel like they are a valued member of something that, in some small way, actually depends on them to function. Newbies, thus, want to be loved. Seriously, though, newbies want to belong. Ignoring them is the worst thing you can do, because they might either morph into trolls, or (even worse) leave. Instead, give them a place. Even better, teach them to need what you've given them, and teach them to respect and rabidly protect the group they are a part of - and then, imply that they are dishonoring the group they're now a part of by typing as they do, or playing as they do. Convince them to better themselves to keep the group stable and whole. Joke with them OOCly, foster camaraderie. Talk to them about your character concepts OOCly, and ask them about theirs, offer advice when they uncertainly say something generic (uhm, this is based off an anime character, or: lol this character is just crazy, super crazy) and suggest ways they could improve, or suggest things that "would be cool to play" - it's the equivalent of tricking children into eating their vegetables by hiding them in something delicious, make them think personalities and quirks are fun - make them realize that what is important in a game like this is not stuff, but character and character development. It might constitute, in some ways, small CRBs - but it's worth it, provided you get it across to them just what exactly roleplay is.

At least, that's what I do. I generally look at every new player as raw potential, and want to shape them to be better than they are.

[jarco]

I voted for kill em all just because I can.
I am probably one of the bad spellers in the game. And my grammar will be awful also at some point. Please try for once to be part of a minor language group and have to roleplay in about 4 languages.

I have one Character that makes it obvious. HE started out Dutch and learned English but he makes a lot of mistakes. I try to make these mistakes a little humorous so its just something funny he does. (I can't overdo this because I can't sell it as being real anymore then).

For my other characters I just play them as Dutch persons that learned English so most people ignore my bad spelling.

My favorite character is spawned as English and probably makes some mistakes. People seem to forgive me for that because I never got a complaint. (and it seems to me that he is well known, just the other day he was talked about in another thread).

I think many of the mistakes you see out there are made by people who have your language as a second one. You can tell them they make the mistakes but it is very hard to correct them if your knowledge of a language is at a lower level.

You can't prevent this at a small language group. I have to roleplay in Spanish, English, German, Dutch and French because we are all spread out between these language groups. (something to say for fixed spawn points for smaller language groups perhaps? Most of my chars spawned on locations where ships with Dutch people where docked and they leave right after that.)

[Addicted]

What wolfsong said mostly, and Jarco, I think the difference between someone who tries and has poor grammar because English isn't their first language is quite different from text talk and from somenone who is lazy in the way they type as far as punctuation and flow. Also, the current - culprit?- is new and is only the third I have encountered in more then a year of playing. Sure each had several characters who stood out and were at times a headache, but I think it's worth the effort to try.

[curious]

The fact that someone could become 'severely annoyed' by this strikes me as a worry, but regardless... the day I get hacked down in Cantr for a spelling mistake, grammatical issues or a typo is the day I hit the big cross.
Yes, I know you are talking about consistent 'offenders' but for God's sake... just play it. If it comes to nothing, fine.

There are many reasons why people use textspeak, and the ones mentioned are pertinent, but I would imagine that people playing across languages is the main one. I imagine there are also players with a visual impairment, people with dyslexia, and/or numerous other issues?
I tend to read through crap like that, and if the opportunity comes a long to correct things in game, I take them as and when they present. You should too.

With respect, this attitude is, at the least, snobbery, and it could be seen as the stuff of bigotry... both unattractive positions in a multi-player, multi-national, and no doubt, 'multi-abled' environment.

[muidoido]

Don't bother with them.
If they become too much of a hussle, just have them killed for IG reasons. Sooner or later they get bored / learn that this may be just not quite the game they'd like to play.

... but those whom I have seen speak that way completely disregard the general style of the game and choose to play it like more traditional RPGs where player-driven roleplay is not an important part of the game, if at all present.

*coughcoughcough* ...what!?
If you mean MMOs, or cRPGs, or sim-sanboxes - the are not even close to -traditional- RPGs, except of maybe some extremely plot-bloat cRPGs, like old good BGs or Fallouts or P:T - but even with these it depends on your playstyle. I would say cantr is closer to a traditional RPG than them, as a the most traditional RPG is P&P, and what it is about is Roleplay.

I really miss my "werewolf the apocalypse" meetings.


Back to the topic, I think that what is annoying, is the fact that this player is not roleplaying, he/she is just playing, like he would play ragnarok. The bad grammar is ugly and should be corrected, but is not a reason to lose a new player...

[Indigo]

I tend to usually ignore it. Sure, I rather easily read texts, with good grammar and punctuation (being spanish and playing most of my characters in english, reading properly written english helps me to improve my knowledge of the language), but that's just a preference... I won't disregard anyone for bad spelling or lack of punctuation. Also, I've found that most of players are very understanding with the mistakes I can make regarding this. And even if what I find it's just laziness, as far as their characters are consistent, I could get along with it.

About people who write in a txt form... I think most of them are newbies. As Wolfsong said, with a little patience you can teach them the proper way to play, and maybe get them sticking to the game. If after some advices they don't change, they're probably trolls, and my characters will ignore them most of times.

When I started playing this game, I was pretty lost. OOC and IC concepts were a bit difficult to get at first (I came here from "visual" MMORPG's, where avatars are just a representation of yourself in game), but I was really lucky, and I found a couple of characters which taught me, mostly IC, how this game should be played. I still remember my first day, when I didn't even know how to start a project, and one of these characters said "Hey, we have a newspawn *looking at him as he struggles to start a project, chuckles* Oh, my.... he's really very -new-" If I had been disregarded in my first days, I surely wouldn't be playing now. But I think I had the patience to watch around how other players played... learning through "modeling" is the best way to learn. Quoting Wolfsong, most players "want to belong". If you're a good model, they will learn from you, and with time, their writing will improve to acceptable terms... or even become amazing roleplayers.

[SumBum]

I think the bigger issue is not spelling/grammar/etc but player behavior and attitude towards Cantr. The txt speak is merely an obvious flag. Yes it irks me more than spelling errors because 90% of the time it's a kid who thinks they're on runescape, some other level grind game, or a chat room. I could probably tolerate "wat do u do here im new wat ur name" IF there was a definite personality to the char. Again, usually that isn't the case since you find multiple new chars spawning all at the same time looking for the key to "advance" in the game.

It depends on which of my chars encounters them. One will flat out tell them something is wrong with them. Generally, I'll put a little more effort into emoting and letting my char's personality show to give them a "good" example then will whisper an OOC with the wiki page, possibly pointing out that their char is not THEM but a made up being. It all depends on HOW they're struggling. If they ignore the OOC help or are otherwise disruptive, I'd try to get them locked up (just to keep them from running off) and attempt a more one-on-one OOC conversation without disrupting everyone even more. I am willing to break IC slightly if I feel a player has potential and willingness to learn; otherwise some of mine would probably kill the char, some would ignore it as much as possible.

*coughcoughcough* ...what!?

The RPG label gets slapped on just about any game that involves controlling a "character".

[RedQueen.exe]

I really miss my "werewolf the apocalypse" meetings.

I used to play that! (okay, only two sessions before we all moved on to Nightbane, but still...)

[Faith]

... both unattractive positions in a multi-player, multi-national, and no doubt, 'multi-abled' environment.

I'm totally agree with curious...well, I should add...


(Really) I'm sure that I have had a LOT of grammar mistakes with my chars in english areas...PLEASE DON'T KILL THEM!
Maybe we should pass a grammar exam before create a char

And about the "txt players", I know one whose, some of his characters are 60 years olds. If you don't understand something...say "What?"

Do sometimes the grammar mistakes (or the "txt" language) annoying me? Sure, but I never let that It affects on my RP (because in my opinion, It shouldn't)

(sorry for the mistakes on my post, I'm sure that there are a couple! )

[the_antisocial_hermit]

I think the issue that is being addressed is not grammar mistakes in general, but people that simplify their text (leaving out letters, etc), rarely try emoting and have no strength to their character at all. Those are the only people I was addressing in my earlier post, anyway. And those characters I will try to lead, mostly through example, to help them become stronger players, but then there are those that you can tell will never learn, and those are the ones that I personally ignore (ETA: after trying to help).

I like proper grammar, but I know how many nationalities play this game, which I think is far more awesome. I know when I had a Spanish character, I probably bumbled all over the place grammatically. Or at least somewhat. I always smile when I see a character that may make grammatical mistakes due to having a different primary language, because I think it's wonderful and certainly no easy task, to play in a language that is not your own.

Oh, and on the point of addressing "txt" characters' speech, I would say that there are lots of things that would 'sound' right to your Cantrian's ear... but some things, like "plz" might be easily a foreign word to them.

[Rebma]

Unlike a lot of you, when I started this game I was young and not even sure what the game was about. I'm sure I talked in text speak for awhile, and the player base back then was -apparently- more forgiving, because they worked with me, to help me. And now here I am, addicted to roleplaying.

Instead of going "Oh god, someone in text speak, do I kill them or ignore them and hope they go away since they will anyways or what?!?!?" why not think "Oh hey, a person who I might be able to get to stay in this game, and improve into a great roleplayer, who loves this sort of game?"

Come on people, don't be assholes.

[curious]

Unlike a lot of you, when I started this game I was young and not even sure what the game was about. I'm sure I talked in text speak for awhile, and the player base back then was -apparently- more forgiving, because they worked with me, to help me. And now here I am, addicted to roleplaying.

Instead of going "Oh god, someone in text speak, do I kill them or ignore them and hope they go away since they will anyways or what?!?!?" why not think "Oh hey, a person who I might be able to get to stay in this game, and improve into a great roleplayer, who loves this sort of game?"

Come on people, don't be assholes.

I have to agree with this... fully!
My first characters were treated sympathetically, as I did not know anything about the environment at all, and I stayed because of this. I would hope that solutions can always be found in game to help people do the same.

In one breath we seem to bemoan the dwindling active player set, and on the other we want to kill off the potentially new and invigorating membership..? and for a tiny crime, in my view... and yes, I too enjoy and have a preference for an environment without the likes of 'plz' 'u' and 'm8'... but I like the idea of... *does best Depp/Wonker impression* 'You really shouldn't mumble'.