Making steel with charcoal?

[SekoETC]

Would this be possible? I thought it would be a good idea to start iron production in a location that has limestone, hematite and wood with a character who doesn't know where to find coal, but now progress is suddenly halted because I didn't read the wiki close enough.

[Pilot]

I agree.

[Ronja Rotschopf]

I don't.
One of my characters isn't able to produce iron, because it can't find limestone. These are the problems that make this game interesting. Don't make it too easy for everyone.

[Pilot]

Fuels are a different matter. There's an option to manufacture aluminium using charcoal so it makes sense to have the option for steel.

[Piscator]

It would certainly make sense to allow using charcoal from a realistic point of view, but I'm not sure it would be a good idea to make steel even more similar to iron.

[RedQueen.exe]

It would certainly make sense to allow using charcoal from a realistic point of view, but I'm not sure it would be a good idea to make steel even more similar to iron.

I've been watching this and waffling for a little bit. I'm still not sure which I agree with, but I do agree with Piscator's general comment. Other than this, the only thing that's making them separate is the requirement of bellows. Barring those things, we might as well just get rid of the extra step and replace steel in all requirements with the appropriate corresponding amount of iron.

[Snickie]

I'm still not sure which I agree with, but I do agree with Piscator's general comment. Other than this, the only thing that's making them separate is the requirement of bellows.

And the fact that you can't make steel in a primitive smelting furnace like you can iron. Nope, steel requires the real thing.

[SekoETC]

Aw come on, I wouldn't care if it was horribly ineffective, just make it possible.

[Andu]

Seconded.

[Piscator]

I guess it would be only consistent to allow using charcoal. Having such an arbitrary limitation is not very suitable to distinguish steel and iron anyway. If we want to have a real distinction, it would be much more sensible to add a general requirement to steel production (some more extra tools, alloying components (chromium?)).

[SekoETC]

My dad says that some steel is always created as a side product of iron production. Maybe the ratio depends on the temperature, I'm not familiar with it. More efficient ways of making steel could be developed (blast furnace?) but this is slightly off-topic.

[Surly]

I'm not sure it's a good idea to try and change things for realism on this small point at this stage. This change would definitely have the potential to change trade dynamics, for not very much in game benefit.

The fact steel and iron are too similar is a longstanding one, and not one I feel could be changed without major ramifications on the game mechanic at this point.

[RedQueen.exe]

And honestly I feel like we should get rid of the primitive smelting furnace, to be honest, but that's probably off topic. Are they ever really used except as a meaningless step on the way to creating a real smelting furnace? Once you make the primitive, presumably, you've got everything ready to create a regular one shortly thereafter.

[Doug R.]

Starting from scratch, a psf is the only way you can make the iron required to build the full size smelting furnace. Characters can get rid of them on their own once they're no longer needed.

[RedQueen.exe]

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I was implying we also get rid of the iron requirement in the regular smelter. Why are 99.9% of primitive smelters built? To make iron. Well once you can make iron you can make the regular smelter, so why not just cut out the completely arbitrary step of standing up a primitive smelter just to tear it back down or leave it as an unused eyesore (lets face it, there's no reason to use it beyond getting the first bit of iron to make a regular smelter) and just add some build time or resources required to a regular smelter if we really feel that is necessary.

I can't comprehend any reasonable use for a primitive smelter EXCEPT for making the first bit of iron for a regular smelter, but maybe that's just the min-maxer in me talking. It's not like there is any other limiting factor that would allow some town to make a primitive smelter but not a regular smelter. Well of course, except the iron, but what are you making the primitive smelter for again? Right... that's what I thought.