Combat Rewrite II

Out-of-character discussion forum for players of Cantr II to discuss new ideas for the development of the Cantr II game.

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Which system do you like the most?

Suggestion 1
9
10%
Suggestion 2
14
15%
Suggestion 3
48
51%
The current system
21
22%
They're all terrible (please propose an alternative system)
2
2%
 
Total votes: 94
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Joshuamonkey
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Joshuamonkey » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:12 pm

*ono wrote:1. - A character can be engaged in multiple duels at a time. Does this mean each character exchanges a blow after eachother or will one duel be completed befor the second starts?

One duel will be completed before the second starts, I believe. If a character is incapacitated or killed, then the next duels don't happen, though I guess someone else could choose to "kill" an incapacitated person. What I'm thinking is that after one day someone in a near death state could be killed instantly.

*ono wrote:2. Will training be one of the attack options? I don't like to incapacitate my opponent each time I want to wack him with a pillow.

Yes
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Doug R.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Doug R. » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:30 am

Mars wrote:
3 [...] People can give order to attack people who are currently not present (but were previously). The attack is then carried out the next time the target is in reach.


3rd option is good, but this point is too big automatization, I think. Do we have robocops or terminators? If we want to automatize something, maybe just add automatic healing with medicaments from character inventory?


It's not automation per se, it's simply correcting an imbalance that gives active characters a combat advantage.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby viktor » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:02 am

Doug R. wrote:
Mars wrote:
3 [...] People can give order to attack people who are currently not present (but were previously). The attack is then carried out the next time the target is in reach.


3rd option is good, but this point is too big automatization, I think. Do we have robocops or terminators? If we want to automatize something, maybe just add automatic healing with medicaments from character inventory?


It's not automation per se, it's simply correcting an imbalance that gives active characters a combat advantage.



um.... isn't activity something we want to encourage? and therefore the advantage of being an active char is survival and prosperity?
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Piscator » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:04 am

In case the sense of this point isn't clear (I can see how the wording might be misleading), this is merely meant to prevent hit and run tactics. If somebody hides in a building for example and only steps out to hit everyone in town, this would allow you to tell your char to attack the person the next time he comes out (and only this one time).

Together with auto-retaliation this might not be that useful though, I have to admit.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby KVZ » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:08 am

All those suggestions have pros and flaws, but I voted 3rd for now. I have question, if there will be chance to kill character in dead near state other than forcing them not to heal themselves anymore? (in this 3rd suggestion).
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby the_antisocial_hermit » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:51 am

I'm not really a fan of any of the 3 suggestions as proposed. At least, none are satisfactory enough for me to give them full support.

Things that stand out at this moment to me:

I do like the concept of the near death state in the first (except I think maybe there should be a timer before a char can be killed instantly in that state) and third suggestions.

I do not like the weapon/shield part of Suggestion 3.

I'm not sure I care for the whole "battle" idea of Suggestion 2.

At some later point, I may be able to more coherently say more about why none of the suggestions seem to be a more desireable system than what we currently have.

Honestly though, I actually kind of like what Chris suggested better than the three proposed in the poll, with the exception of his 4th statement. The lock thing sounds kind of weird the way he put it. If there's a lock, it should be picked or broken. Not... simply gotten past. So maybe a picking option?

I especially agree with his point about there being a separate mechanism or calculation for sparring and real combat. Perhaps have two lists to choose from after you press the hit button- Sparring (1-100% with 100% being less powerful than say 20% of a real attack) and Attack/Combat (1-100%). You either check a percentage on the sparring list or the attack list. The drop down for choosing weapon would be the same.

Though that might make things slower for people in a hurry to whack that thieving newspawn...

Anyway, I can't back any official suggestion as given.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby SekoETC » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:08 am

I sort of think if someone auto-attacked someone else, they should know it's an auto-attack. Also what if two people are in separate rooms and they both schedule each other for hit on first sight, if one of them enters the room where the other one is, will they auto-attack that person (we already know the person inside will, because they saw this other person entering) and in which order the attacks are carried out if both attack?
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby SumBum » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:27 am

I can't process all of this now, but I would love to see consensual dragging. Have an option that you can mark certain chars as "friendlies" who can drag you without resistance.

Also, sparring. I do not want to wait any amount of time while not working on projects for my char to smack someone with a waster. If you don't want to screw with the mess of who can hit with what when, then give us gym equipment and target dummies to increase our strength and fighting skill.

I'll post more when I have time to read through the options again.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Joshuamonkey » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:49 am

At least with the second suggestion, skill experience per fight could be increased significantly.

SekoETC wrote:I sort of think if someone auto-attacked someone else, they should know it's an auto-attack. Also what if two people are in separate rooms and they both schedule each other for hit on first sight, if one of them enters the room where the other one is, will they auto-attack that person (we already know the person inside will, because they saw this other person entering) and in which order the attacks are carried out if both attack?

The person being attacked should know it's an auto attack? For what reason? I guess that the auto-attack should apply even if the attacker is the one entering the room. There should also be a way to get rid of the auto-attack if you change your mind or the situation changes. If more than one person is auto-attacking, then I think that the attacks should happen in order of who chose to auto-attack first.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Mykey » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:37 am

I voted for 3, but I`m biased as an RPG fan. They all have good points I need to review more closely.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Spider » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:39 am

So I don't like any of them completely enough to vote so I guess I'll just take the parts I like from each and put that as my proposal.

- Initiating attack is counted as starting a kind of project. It doesn't prevent you from attacking more targets, but you can't work on regular projects at the same time. Its default duration is 12 RL hours(Real life hours, not cantr hours) by which time it is automatically defended against.

-The attacker can attack once again after a full day since the initial attack if no action is taken, if retailated then they can attack in less time (not sure what would be a good one)

-The target is frozen. The target can't move, make progress on projects, regenerate energy or access its inventory until after the combat is resolved.

-An outsider can resolve it but only if they step in to take the hit. Intervening at various times has varying options which are presented to the outsider in choices. If they intervene between 0-2 RL hours after attack starts, they can defend normally (full shield). Between 2-4 RL hours they can defend with 75% normal. Between 4-6 RL hours with 50% of normal. From 6-8 RL hours with 25% of normal. From 8-12 the only option is to jump in the way, no shield is used. In every cases, the attacker can still miss as in the current system. Options of how to defend will be grayed out as the time limit on each is reached.

- The target can choose to end the project and the frozen state prematurely (resolve it). It can either choose to defend, remain passive (e.g. for suicide) or counter attack. If it defends, all current means to prevent damage apply (dodging the attack aka missing the target, chance to prevent damage with shield). Passive always lands hit. With counter-attacking, the fighting cycle happens with the defender's stats when the original attack was initiated, dodging is not possible but shield is still used to defend attack (maybe not as well, such as defending with shield at 66% as penalty for being surprised)

-If the target chooses to forfeit the immediate counter-attack, it is protected against another attack by the same enemy for the 24 hours since the initial attack or until the target chooses to perform a manual counter-attack, move, join a project, drop or give items, or eat healing food

-If the target of an attack leaves in a vehicle, the attack is automatically resolved. The target defends regularly with its best shield. (The possibilities for abuse are severly reduced by the above rule.) If the attacker leaves in a vehicle the attack is canceled.

-In order to attack people or vehicles on the road, the attacker has to be able to match the defenders speed. If he can't match the speed, he is unable to intercept the vehicle. When combat is initiated, both parties stop moving.

- A character can be engaged in multiple duels at a time.

-People with 0% health enter the near death state, which would make them drop their inventory and render them unable to do anything but speak and notice events. If not healed within a certain number of days (1,2,3?), the character dies.

- Characters can be put into stances with some sort of cost/benefit for each stance (decide stances and costs later)

- Dragging a person at 100% tiredness is instant.

- Target can allow instant dragging by a set number of people.

- Dragging is more like a project which is completed after X (not sure) hours depending on strength/skill of attacker and target along with assistance by others

- If a person is being dragged, they are informed but cannot get away easily, they are allowed to counter-attack the dragger who is left vulnerable (50% shield) and if they hit they are released but of course are left slighty more tired than a full attack for the struggle, depending on how much force they use.

- Dragging can fail, like lock picking project, if they have enough people it will be decided if it fails or not when it reaches 100%, all draggers are more easily tired.

Dunno, just some ideas...not really sure, but there you go.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby gejyspa » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:32 am

I voted for option 4: No one should fight anyone, and we should give each others daffodils and sunshine, beat our swords into plowshares, and our composite recurve bows into potato harvesters.

....just saying.
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Last edited by gejyspa on Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Mykey » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:45 am

gejyspa wrote:I voted for option 4: No one should fight anyone, and we should give each others daffodils and sunshine, beat our swords into plowshares, and our composite recurve bows into potato harvesters.

....just saying.
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Please tell me that was a joke and meant to be riddled with sarcasm. :roll:
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby gejyspa » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:51 am

Well, let's see... in the 9-10 months (540 total character-days) I've been playing, my characters have attacked other characters exactly twice, and that includes pillows, wasters, etc. (one was attacking someone who attacked multiple town members, and once was a fist while protecting someone else's honor).

In my 48 years of real life, I haven't even done that much.

So no, not a joke (but yes, a little bit of sarcasm).
Last edited by gejyspa on Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Combat Rewrite II

Postby Faith » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:51 am

I voted for 3, but not agree with auto-attack.

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