Trains

[EchoMan]

Also, discussions tend to die once a topic ends up in Accepted Suggestions.

[Doug R.]

We should just accept my proposal and move on.

[Joshuamonkey]

Either the space between towns should be acessible for everyone or for none.

Could we allow people to walk next to the train tracks? Then at least people on the train could be attacked, and the train would still end up at the next station no matter who died. (And the train driver may die for some reason, but at least the train could be stopped by a station.)
Or if people walking could jump onto unlocked moving train cars; now that would be interesting.

Edit: I'm afraid to move this to accepted and add to pending without being sure exactly how it's going to be implemented. Are we going with Piscator's idea?

[oguymai]

Choose the destination for this rail platform:

- Klojit (rail built)
- Emerald shores (56 days, 12000g of iron, 20000g of wood to build rail)
- Leave unused for now

They still call it Emerald Shores?

[viktor]

i think it could be very simple if rails were an upgrade from expressway, once it becomes a railway then ya, it be cool to show on a map of course you need to build a hub, this is not a station but it allows rail lines to connect and in here you can 'barricade' or lock a connection to prevent trains from a certain place from going through.
then you need to make a station which would be under transportation subheading of buildings
then we have to build our train engine and rail cars

you can make connecting rails by upgrading the linked expressways and building a station somewhere else along the line, there the train can stop, load/unload, refuel, take another path to any other linked station if there is one.

nobody would be building stations in every town as say one major city wants to connect a rail line to another major city that they have good relations with, they would build connecting rail lines across the map, and have a station at each end, and the train engine operator gets the option to drive directly there, but of course, we'll need to make it at least as fast if not faster than current vehicles, because the weight effect of having a couple loaded cars will bring it down in line, or we could have different types of train engines, the intake of which is different along with their speeds
diesel engine, coal engine(or charcoal), gas(propane) engine,
and i guess if we wanted to throw in a twist, make em take water for the steam
here we solve the problems of messy lines going every which way because they would just follow the path roads do and not criss cross
we solve the problem of one country isolated from another by a hostile neighbor in between, because you would have to have the lines connecting and the neighbor in the middle could just not allow the lines to cross it's borders or alternatively, allow to barricade/lock a particular connection this could effectively stop trains from crossing between those two isolated countries, if all the rails crossing the border were locked 'barricaded' the option to go to a particular station would not exist or it would be greyed out because the connection is blocked.
the rail upgrade from expressway would need timber(or treated wood? wood mixed with resin?), limestone and stone, sand, iron, steel
the hub, would be mainly stone with a bit of iron
the station would be more stone and more iron/steel, maybe wood?


if you really wanted to throw in more complexity, you could make it possible to have seperate parallel rail lines, by making it mandatory to make the hubs before the rail upgrade, the rail line connecting 2 hubs, then when building a station, either have to choose which hub it is connected to, or build it in the hub, if you are in the station or hub, you should be able to walk to the next town (not restricted to stations because a walker can stop at a hub),


the train engine would be lockable of course, and each car could be locked, through some passenger cars might be left open, who knows, maybe we'll have trains with 10 cars and someone forgets to lock one and a hobo hops in just as it's about to pull away

[viktor]

and with domesticating and moving animals... it;s only humane that you need somethng as big as a rail car to move them instead of a cramped passenger car, birds like to fly around and elephants are massive.. just a side note (build steel cages inside of them rail cars too if ya like )

[Joshuamonkey]

i think it could be very simple if rails were an upgrade from expressway

But then what would be the point of a train other than moving animals?

[viktor]

no waiting for someone to wake in each town because the train is set to go to a chosen station instead of just driving road by road, also for mass transport, and it should be made faster than cars because it is cantr and needs a point to be made.
also because you know as well as i there is an adequate base of eccentrics who would do it just because.
if we wanted to make a strait line from one distant place to another it may as well be a causeway, needing a tractor to be able to build and able to go undersea for a rediculous 'world wonder' scale price.

[Tosti]

But then what would be the point of a train other than moving animals?

Searching on wikipedia the reason in history why people wanted to build railways.
"Because a stiff wheel rolling on a rigid rail requires less energy per ton-mile moved than road transport"

So the (load / weight effect) should be much less for trains than road vehicles.

i think it could be very simple if rails were an upgrade from expressway

But what about the road vehicles than, they can not drive on the rails. Roads can be upgrade to expressway/railway, but sandroad/railway will also be possible.
So another advantage of trains is that you don't need to go through all the upgrades of the roads. (an advantage when you need to connect long distances)

I agree with you viktor that there does not have to be build hubs for every place in between of the stations. asuming that no people living there so no hub should be placed in between, a possibilty is that bandits sometime could visit these places and build barricades with just simple materials, would be very cool.

The last thing I would like to add to this discussion is to make upgradable stations. For example:
1. primary station: only one locomotive can be stationary here. (other trains that arrive here should wait for the other to depart)(waiting locomotives can't change wagons, or remove goods from the wagons, cantrians can get out and talk)
2. secundary station: 3 locomotives can enter, change wagons/goods
3 Grand station: 6 locomotives maybe.

The point of this idea is that a station could not be ruled by everybody, some sort of supervision should come from the owners of the village/station. It will stimulate conflics and. if people want more wealth in welcoming more trains to the village, they should invest.
And it stimulates cooperation of using one locomotive instead that everybody builds its own locomotive.

Edit: Fixed your quotes. /EchoMan

[viktor]

revision to my idea brought about by the idea of cars driving on rails being wrong... lol
we could have some sort of structure (i'm just calling it a hub) that you can enter and lock., and there would be reason for patrollers there's a social development. i'm sure the bandits would have a crowbar if they're gonna be hijackin a train so that lock is more symbolic, plus... they should be able to walk the rail
and instead of upgrading expressways to rail, we'd just have the rail connected by these 'hubs' seprate from the rail, and connect stations to the hubs to use the rail.

[Tosti]

I think where actualy thinking a bit the same, but instead of building a structure, that bandits need to unlock. There is no need of building a hub. bandits need to build some sort of building themself called barricade to stop the train. An other option is afcourse just use a crowbar to sabbotage the railway.
There is no need of walking on the rail when next to it would be a path or express way. maybe barricades could also be build from the road itself, that makes the roads more interactive as well, in the past most bandits operated raiding roads or railways instead operating from a place/village. Than patrollers realy need to go patrolling along the roads

[Joshuamonkey]

Searching on wikipedia the reason in history why people wanted to build railways.
"Because a stiff wheel rolling on a rigid rail requires less energy per ton-mile moved than road transport"

So the (load / weight effect) should be much less for trains than road vehicles.

In real life, however, rails aren't generally built beside roads. They can take relatively more direct paths, I assume, from station to station.
Trains would still be slower than cars, yet much more expensive (the rails would be very expensive also), so the real advantage would still be the ability to go more directly to another town. Forcing train rails to go along normal roads would stop trains' potential to make an easier path to a town farther away. Yes, some would build a train anyway, but why make it pointless if it's takes so much to make it?
So, I still disagree.

[Piscator]

In real life, however, rails aren't generally built beside roads. They can take relatively more direct paths

In real life, roads can take the direct path as well.

[EchoMan]

In real life railways were being built at a time when horses/cars still travelled on Cantrs equivalent of paths up to stone roads. And those were not straight most of the time.

[Tosti]

Joshuamonkey, I think you would rather have airplanes and airports. Than your idea of a new way of connecting city's with new routes "airroutes" could be made.