Pre made Characters

[gejyspa]

This could cause someone to say what town was that, pulling out a map and wanting to go there. Then try saying some name of a town that no one can find on a map. Now there is a town introduced that doesn't exist, what happens then to a mapmaker? Mapmaker now says take me there so I can put it on my map. You cant be from another island since you dont own a boat. What if everyone did this? How about instead. Have a really bad dream about the town you are in being attacked by a wool wearing animal (do we have rams?) and then be scared of wool products. Or what Doug said.

There are currently no IG maps AFAIK that show every single spot in the cantr world (and things do change over time, so there can't really ever be). What if everyone did this? Then cantr would be an interesting place.

[Doug R.]

There are currently no IG maps AFAIK that show every single spot in the cantr world (and things do change over time, so there can't really ever be).

No, but we have one that's very close, and every (real) year the maps become more and more complete. Eventually, there -will- be a map with every island on it, and land/locations -do not- change over time, so your argument won't be valid forever. Seems silly to base your argument on a premise that might hold today, but could be false tomorrow.

[Marian]

There are currently no IG maps AFAIK that show every single spot in the cantr world (and things do change over time, so there can't really ever be). What if everyone did this? Then cantr would be an interesting place.

I feel like we're going to be arguing in circles forever here, but not much else to do right now so whatev.

On a map or not, every single spot in the Cantr world exists firmly in the Cantr world, including specific resources and animals that are presumably tracked by the database somehow. Your character also exists and can be tracked in the Cantr world, and has never been to any of those places, nor to any made up places. Your character can dream or imagine they travelled from or to someplace, but physically they haven't. This is an indisputable fact. For that matter, since Cantr has no NPCs, their 'parents' and all the people from their old home would have to exist as characters in the game world too, and obviously they don't.

[Piscator]

Well, for argument's sake we could assume that there is a whole world between the known roads and places, which can't be found anymore after a char wandered into the regular world, but that's about as hard to swallow as people being created from thin air.

[gejyspa]

Look, there's any number of easily answerable ways around your objections -- "I don't remember the name of my hometown, I left it when I was little"
"Hmm.. we must have called something else than what your mapmaker called it." (not impossible -- my character already knows at least three different places that are called by two different names, and he's been practically NOWHERE)
"I have no idea where to find it on that map. I don't know how to read maps. I only know it had a forest near it."
But really, you're going to give the third degree to everyone who comes to your city? That's a city I don't want to visit. The real issue here isn't what happens to the characters, it's the player's interpretation of what spawning is. You say it means they popped into existence from thin air (or a pod tree, or whatever), twenty years old (measured from some unknown point), knowing (outside of few exceptional characters) how to speak, read, write and possibly other skills, without having learned them. I say, "You see a twenty-year-old you haven't noticed before" means "You see a twenty-year-old you haven't noticed before". Past that, it's up to their player to determine how their character got there.
But, I had already come to the same conclusion as Marian -- there is no way any of us are going to budge on their respective opinion, and I am clearly in the tiny minority. I no longer see any value in continuing to argue my point. So don't take my unaccustomed silence in this thread as any kind of backing down, just an understanding that one can only beat their head against a wall so long without realizing it ain't gonna move.

[CrashBlizz]

I've seen several characters spawn with backstories, some more stupid than others. Normally I just kill them - "Look, another crazy newspawn" *WHACK*.
When I cant kill them for whatever reason then I'll just ignore them completely, theres plenty of other players to talk to.

I spend time making a character in game (lets say a war hero) and then some newspawn comes along and says he did all that 4 years ago in some place the players made up? I dont think so!

[Cdls]

I say, "You see a twenty-year-old you haven't noticed before" means "You see a twenty-year-old you haven't noticed before". Past that, it's up to their player to determine how their character got there.

That is BS, as if a character travels into town, there is a "you see XXX arrive in town" or some such message. As the spawning message clearly does not say that, the character obviously has not come from any prior location and therefore has spawned from nowhere. As there is no possible method to "sneak" into a town, and given the fact that EVERYONE outside can see travelers come and go, a newspawn trying to create a backstory is just looking to get pwned in the face with a crossbow.

This being said, I do not let my personal opinion on the matter influence how my characters handle such deluded beings (characters, not the players) and will act accordingly. I have two that would entertain the notion of the person magically appearing from nowhere and claim to be from XXX, and have one that would believe anything it was told. The rest would act rather negatively as they are set in their beliefs.

[mojomuppet]

The towns can have 50 different names and it wont matter because your char has not been to any of them. And making up bs towns to fit a bs background will likely not fly with many.

As Crash said, he doesnt like the idea of some char spawning with a background that it didnt "earn". I agree with this more than anything else.

And your characters that spawn this way may likely have time to tell their story over and over again...to any other char that happens to be locked up in the same building as yours, at least until someone gets around to killing it. There is a reason "crazy" newspawns are killed.


You are likely to end up with a dead char (or several) by setting yourself up this way, be more upset than you are now, get frustrated, and quit the game all together.

[Bowser]

I've never made up a back story. I have enough trouble coming up with a front story.

I have always believed that, "wears nothing worth mentioning" doesn't mean naked, just nothing worth mentioning, could be a fig leaf... but then again that would be worth mentioning.

I also believe that a newspawn that we haven't noticed before has always been there but was just too young and unimportant to have made any impact or impression on anybody... thats why we never noticed him/her. Once they turn 20, we begin to acknowledge people.

[Snickie]

I also believe that a newspawn that we haven't noticed before has always been there but was just too young and unimportant to have made any impact or impression on anybody... thats why we never noticed him/her. Once they turn 20, we begin to acknowledge people.

Why is it, then, that they never have any turn reports for the twenty years they "existed" before being acknowledged by other people?


I feel sorry for the people who have to deal with the one character I have with a background story. It's not even your typical background story. But it's already caused me and I bet several other players some grief and annoyances.

[DylPickle]

I also believe that a newspawn that we haven't noticed before has always been there but was just too young and unimportant to have made any impact or impression on anybody... thats why we never noticed him/her. Once they turn 20, we begin to acknowledge people.

Why is it, then, that they never have any turn reports for the twenty years they "existed" before being acknowledged by other people?

They were so busy learning to speak, write, conjure paper, and grasp a basic understanding of wiki-knowledge to fart out a turn report.

[Eleiris]

They were so busy learning to speak, write, conjure paper, and grasp a basic understanding of wiki-knowledge to fart out a turn report.

My thoughts exactly...

[Alladinsane]

I think Gejyspa has a point to some degree at least. As long as any part of a backstory is not 'earned' as mentioned by mojo(?), then it can add to roleplay at least. Some people have funny accents, or can't even speak at all. I have seen quite a few neurotic ladies spawn also, most of them biting their lips for some reason. It gives a character a clue as to what posture to approach them with right away, whether you are the 'soft shoulder to cry on' or maybe a character who would use such information to their advantage (assuming the neurotic stays in character). Or maybe you just want to ignore them.

But killing someone who has a backstory? Why? Because they annoy you or what? I am just having a hard time understanding that p.o.v.

I am reminded of something that was, and might still be, in Doug's signature about Cantr being the best true role-playing experience on the net (paraphrase from memory). It seems to me that is true, but only if we all play the same character who has no past, never explains how (s)he learned to talk, walk, why they are 'spawned' as an expert fighter (those who know the arts know it isn't strictly physical at its 'expert' lvls), and so many things that by their very existence substantiate that something must have happened during those 'missing' 20yrs. Filling it in with a story that gives no in-game advantages or doesnt violate CRB seems to be exactly what some people have called this game: role-playing. Or we could just wait until they finish attacking a mouflon and then punch themselves in the face before we worry about them actually developing any personality. At least thats role play as I would see it.

I feel like I am arguing with myself here, but I will at least give credit to the best argument against everything I (and gej) stated above: "Thats just the way the game is designed" (another paraphrase). It detracts a bit from RP imo, but it still is the best thing going that I have found on the net. There is some confusing discrepancy with the numbers and participation imo, as the net explodes and grows larger, Cantr seems to be going the exact opposite direction and I don't understand why. Osmosis alone should bring them in, yet...well, I said I was confused didn't I? Its a perpetual state with me.

Oh well, its back and I am going to have fun and hope I don't run into any of the 'personality killers'.

Best wishes everyone and...

Be well.

[Doug R.]

I feel like I am arguing with myself here, but I will at least give credit to the best argument against everything I (and gej) stated above: "Thats just the way the game is designed" (another paraphrase). It detracts a bit from RP imo,

Cantr was not designed to be a Role Playing Game. The only reason it's become a RPG is because the game it was designed to be failed over time, and there was nothing left to do other than RP. If Cantr was designed to be an RPG, the 20 year pre-spawn period would have an official explanation coupled to an official in-game religion system. It was left unexplained because it was irrelevant to a game of political brinkmanship and state building.

There was a guy that spawned with a backstory that he used to be a pirate, so I threw his ass in jail. A no-brainer, really, from either standpoint (pirates go to jail, crazy people that think they were pirates are no safer).

or doesnt violate CRB

And as I said, I think it does violate the CR.

[Marian]

There was a guy that spawned with a backstory that he used to be a pirate, so I threw his ass in jail. A no-brainer, really, from either standpoint (pirates go to jail, crazy people that think they were pirates are no safer).

I would love to see a log of this.