Cantr Histories and Politics

[jeslange]

You win on terminology." *hands you a rose and gold crown*

Allow me to try again at my previously erroneous train of thought by indicating that I was thinking of the philosophy of anarchy, rather than the practice of it.

an·ar·chism
1 : a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups

[Anthony Roberts]

You win on terminology." *hands you a rose and gold crown*

Allow me to try again at my previously erroneous train of thought by indicating that I was thinking of the philosophy of anarchy, rather than the practice of it.

an·ar·chism
1 : a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups

Theory.

"The act of non-truth; Having not yet been proven."

[The Industriallist]

You said it!

- Absence of any form of political authority.

That doesn't have to mean chaos. People can live together without authority, it just normally doesn't last long.

Also, authority doesn't have to be political. People in their thirties and up get automatic authority almost everywhere, but it isn't political.

Order and government are different things.

[Anthony Roberts]

You said it!

- Absence of any form of political authority.

That doesn't have to mean chaos. People can live together without authority, it just normally doesn't last long.

Also, authority doesn't have to be political. People in their thirties and up get automatic authority almost everywhere, but it isn't political.

Order and government are different things.

But, that definition was with the other two:

- Political disorder and confusion.
- Absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose

They were originally "one", just seperated for easier reading >.>

[Missy]

There are other places like this. They are just not major towns.

Like Vrayllnuets.

[glitterdown]

I also have played a lot of the Civilization games, and they state the same thing. Anarchy is the worst 'government' to have, because it's complete chaos. Nothing good happens from it, development wise.

And again, straight from good old Sid:

During Anarchy, there is completle chaos and confusion among the people, because of their attempts to start a new government, or change to the rules of the newly elected or enacted government.

Sadly, your entire argument is based on your misreading of the definitions that you looked up online because you cannot tell the difference between Sid Meiers reality and our own.

Although (note small "a") anarchy can mean a state of disorder and chaos, the fact that it was mentioned in terms of a government system means that it is a political philosophy, an ideology, and etc. (note capital "A") Anarchy is in fact a political idology much like Democracy (no resemblance to Democans and Republicrats) or the Republic, or Oligarchy, or Theocracy, or Monarchy, or etc. And just because something does or does not appear in Civilization, doesn't make it "true" or "real."

Anarchy as a government system (in so far as no governement = government) is not necessarily characterized by chaos or disorder. There's just no-one in absolute control of society and each individual has absolute freedom.

Since we're all quoting online dictionaries now:

Main Entry: an·ar·chism
Pronunciation: 'a-n&r-"ki-z&m, -"när-
Function: noun
1 : a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups

Try doing some research before opening your mouth to insult someone else. Thanks. And save the showboating till you've actually accomplished something.

[Surly]

I have to second what Glitterdown stated (although without the veiled insults). I sat an exam on the ideologies 'Anarchism and Feminism' on Tuesday, and an Anarchic society is simply one with any government, or State. That can be Indidvidual Anarchism (the ultimate conclusion of Liberalism) or Communal Anarchism (the ultimate conclusion of socialism/communism). It is dangerous to just rest on dictionary defintions, as they frequently say different things to the way you interpret them.

Anyone else want to discuss ideologies? The key principles of Fascism, perhaps?

[Anthony Roberts]

Sadly, your entire argument is based on your misreading of the definitions that you looked up online because you cannot tell the difference between Sid Meiers reality and our own.

No, I looked up online as proof of my argument. If you were asked to tell the government how much money you earned in your last fiscal quarter, would you just tell them? Or would you show them your balance sheet? Same situation.

Although (note small "a") anarchy can mean a state of disorder and chaos, the fact that it was mentioned in terms of a government system means that it is a political philosophy, an ideology, and etc. (note capital "A") Anarchy is in fact a political idology much like Democracy (no resemblance to Democans and Republicrats) or the Republic, or Oligarchy, or Theocracy, or Monarchy, or etc. And just because something does or does not appear in Civilization, doesn't make it "true" or "real."

I'd like to point out...

I think Cantr City may be the only only society in Cantr that has successfully maintained anarchy.

I happen to see a small 'a'. Although it is in terms of government, a dictionary does not notice the difference in capitalization (Most of the time, except when it comes to proper names and such, of course) - "anarchy" and "Anarchy" -are- two different things, and I realise this. "Anarchy", however, is that not the name of some... band or something?

Try doing some research before opening your mouth to insult someone else. Thanks. And save the showboating till you've actually accomplished something.

As for this comment here... I find that to be completly unneeded on the Cantr forums. I never insulted Jess in any shape or form, I was merely offering a comment to what she said about Cantr City. She then rebuttled, commenting that I was wrong, but I, however, felt that I was correct, and so I went on to prove that such fact.

As well, for future reference, show some respect for your fellow players. People at times can be wrong. I'm sure, from Jess's explaination, I'm incorrect. But from my own interpretation, -I- am correct. No matter the cause, this is unjustified. Keep these kind of comments out of here.

[Psycho Pixie]

Just for the Record, Crag does not run the forest, nor is there a government. There is a Clan of people, led by figure heads that possess certain keys. The laws consist of pretty much one thing, if you are a stranger, watch what you say and do. If the clan finds favor in you then you will leave happy. If you can't hold your tongue, then you may never leave.

Pauric Grimes is the other clan elder. A great man in his own rights.

Pak is slowly becomeing that way. No-one really runs the place, but the town citizens kinda kep tabs on everything. Nice situation I think. But that town is MY baby so I may be a bit prejudiced.

PsPi

[Surly]

I happen to see a small 'a'. Although it is in terms of government, a dictionary does not notice the difference in capitalization (Most of the time, except when it comes to proper names and such, of course) - "anarchy" and "Anarchy" -are- two different things, and I realise this. "Anarchy", however, is that not the name of some... band or something?

That's petty, very petty. It's clear what the context was - that is a political system (or lack of it). Using dictionary definitions is generally proof that you can't prove your point, or don't know what you are talking about.

As for what Glitterdown said, let it slide. If you keep insulting each other for no good reason it'll get nasty. Just leave it.

Edit: ALthough maybe I should leave it... Take my own advice. Feel free to ignore this post, both of you, if it helps you move on.

[glitterdown]

I agree i came on a little strong there... but I was a bit incensed by your bravado and mistreatment of poor jeslange.

I win

especially when it was so obvious (to me at least) that you were in the wrong, and they were in the right. There's was absolutely no need to respond to you in the manner you'd responded to them. However...

I did.

[jeslange]

It's cool, guys.

I took Anthony's "I win" as a facetious comment, rather than any sort of passionate gloating or what-not. Anthony likes to joke and does so frequently in the forums, but I wouldn't be traumatized even if he was being serious in this case. I'd just pull his hair when nobody was looking and take back the roses

But, thanks anyway, Glitterdown, for looking out for players.

[Jur Schagen]

Though it tends to be forgotten nowadays, anarchism has been an ideal for various groups of peoples since the mid-1800's, all the way up to the 1970's punk movement, like jeslange wrote as well. The idea is, that no one should have a say over the affairs of anyone else, and since a government inherently does so (be if mandated by violance, popular support, or whatever else), any government was considered a misfit.

Seen in the light of the eternal "natural goodness / natural evilness of mankind"-discussion, the anarchists are obviously "natural goodness" believers, since they assume it would be possible to maintain this state without being abused by its members, and that it could be maintained against "evil/strong" members creating an "evil" government. Most historical idealist anarchies indeed failed because either someone took power in the vacuum, or the failure of organization led to failure of production as needed by the population.

A lot of Cantr locations are anarchies. Everywhere where there's a group of people digging in some location minding their own business, is an anarchy strictly speaking. Some examples: Doryiskom Mountains, Olip North, Kwor Southern Fields, Lake Village... I could continue this list for a long time. Even a place like Doryiskom could be considered an anarchy since any laws aren't upheld (anymore?) by the government. In fact these anarchies function quite well; there is usually little crime (usually enforced by common sense and a sort of undefined "group feeling" towards agressors and thieves). They tend to fail though as soon as:
- an external group of armed people enforces their will/government on the original population (or kills them);
- numbers of people are rising, and a group of internal people decide it is time to set up a government.

Both can be seen as a government creating itself, and since the anarchy has no own "will" it cannot defend itself efficiently against organization taking place.

Since Cantr people have very little needs (food alone is sufficient), it doesn't fail because of production diversity and complexity cannot be met without organization - like IRL.

Just my two pennies...