Apothecary / Tea Removal Clarification

[KVZ]

Well, at least now something is done. But if they really managed to wipe out 10 towns, that makes tea looks even worse. Now also 2nd side of coin - lot of complains on Polish forum, that some players chars by years produced tea to have stockpile or for trade, now they can almost throw it out, and start collecting stone, as it is safer business. (Only to have hope that new tea properties will be desirable enough to make players stop complain about throwing out this tea).

[EchoMan]

We want to have an EXCITING combat system, with wisely incorporated imbalances creating satisfying interplay between the opposing forces, and eliminating clickfesting.

In the light of recent events that really made me laugh. Why didn't you leave your tea at home then. It would have been a fair fight with two sides in it, and exciting for sure.

[EchoMan]

Well, at least now something is done. But if they really managed to wipe out 10 towns, that makes tea looks even worse. Now also 2nd side of coin - lot of complains on Polish forum, that some players chars by years produced tea to have stockpile or for trade, now they can almost throw it out, and start collecting stone, as it is safer business. (Only to have hope that new tea properties will be desirable enough to make players stop complain about throwing out this tea).

Just to clarify:
Tea is not getting removed. Tea is temporarily disabled from restoring tiredness. If we have to permanently disable it for whatever reason, tea (and coffee and...) will get some other effect that will make it retain its market value.

[Cogliostro]

Well, I can't speak for the deathsquad as I have nothing to do with it. My established english characters suffered in the attacks like everyone else's. But let me try to advocate for the raiders anyway: why wouldn't criminals want to line up and fight heavily advantaged and more numerous goodies, fair UND square?

Why indeed.

Maybe because that's a great way to get killed approximately 156% of the time, due to all the nerfs put in place over the years in the combat system...

[KVZ]

Just to clarify:
Tea is not getting removed. Tea is temporarily disabled from restoring tiredness. If we have to permanently disable it for whatever reason, tea (and coffee and...) will get some other effect that will make it retain its market value.

Yes, I know, and I can read For now I can see 3 possible solutions:
1. Make tea as normal or healing food (not gives so much tea value then - worst solution)
or 2. Make limit how much of tea can be consumed per day
or 3. Make limit after how much hours tea reduce tiredness after consume (now you drink, but you must wait 2-3 hours to your tiredness reduced, so others have time and chance to counterattack)

[Rumaan]

Just to clarify:
Tea is not getting removed. Tea is temporarily disabled from restoring tiredness. If we have to permanently disable it for whatever reason, tea (and coffee and...) will get some other effect that will make it retain its market value.

Yes, I know, and I can read For now I can see 3 possible solutions:
1. Make tea as normal or healing food (not gives so much tea value then - worst solution)
or 2. Make limit how much of tea can be consumed per day
or 3. Make limit after how much hours tea reduce tiredness after consume (now you drink, but you must wait 2-3 hours to your tiredness reduced, so others have time and chance to counterattack)

2 has been discussed for sometime. 3 is useless.

[mojomuppet]

Crash: But that's the only effective possibility that has been left to the raiders with the current combat system. There's no other war in Cantr except this clickfesty war of who's-online-when and who has more insta-use heal/energy supplies.

You are self centered and dont care about the actual survival of the game. Kiss off puppy. I have won many wars with no tea at all, its takes you putting enough people together to make it happen. Dont be a smuck,if you need tea that bad its because you aren't smart enough to convince others to help you, work on your social skills..

[Chris]

Cantr isn't The Sims, it's a world that emulates the precarious and threadbare existance we've evolved through to be here today, which even now is only protected by a thin veil of law enforcements that still are of no great use if 5 people want to burst in your house and stab you to death.

Bad analogy. If people break into my house, they might wake me up, and I would have a chance to run or fight. In an emergency, I wouldn't worry about missing work or going without sleep. Cantr, on the other hand, is a game that doesn't wake you up when your character is in danger, and not many people are going to make a lot of RL sacrifices for it.

No one is talking about eliminating death. I just want a balance between the time scale of 99% of the game and the 1% that is combat. The people who stay for years are likely to enjoy the 99%. They deserve a chance to resist without staying behind locked doors all the time, just in case that 1% scenario happens.

[Cogliostro]

Hey, everybody agrees on that one, Chris. Even I do. If desired, I have a post in the "Suggestions" about asynchronous combat. That's a system where any advantage or disadvantage to being online and fast clicking is eliminated from the game. Something like that is really essential.

However, we can't constantly nerf raiders and give ridiculous unmatched advantages to defenders, that has to stop for good when or if the future combat system is rolled out.

[Arenti]

Hey, everybody agrees on that one, Chris. Even I do. If desired, I have a post in the "Suggestions" about asynchronous combat. That's a system where any advantage or disadvantage to being online and fast clicking is eliminated from the game. Something like that is really essential.

However, we can't constantly nerf raiders and give ridiculous unmatched advantages to defenders, that has to stop for good when or if the future combat system is rolled out.

Do we play the same game? Or what kind of drugs do you use? Advantage for Defenders? I have never heard anything that stupid being said. Attackers have clearly always the advantage and not a little. Defenders mostly can't even hit back when attacked.

[Cogliostro]

Maybe you have not played the game for as long as some, and so don't have the advantage of comparing the original combat system (a terrible hack, admittedly) and its ultranerfed modern version - which has now grown completely insupportable.

Let the following abridged list be on record:

1. Artificially limited weapon damage, intended to make it impossible for an attacker to kill any of his enemies in one hit.
2. Artificially restricted ability to hit the same person several times in a day (one-per-day hit rule).
3. Artificially introduced tiredness intended to curtail the ability of small groups to attack larger groups effectively (but you can use tea and herbals, they said - not any more apparently!)

Magical advantages introduced specifically to benefit defenders and established characters. How can you not be sick of it?

Where is a list of counter-advantages artificially provided to raiders and murdering maniacs? It's as if everyone has agreed that they are lowlife scum and deserve no fair treatment. What you think about it in-game is your business, I got no beef with that. But out here, we must at least pretend to be impartial. At least pretend.

[Meem]

Maybe you have not played the game for as long as some, and so don't have the advantage of comparing the original combat system (a terrible hack, admittedly) and its ultranerfed modern version - which has now grown completely insupportable.

Let the following abridged list be on record:

1. Artificially limited weapon damage, intended to make it impossible for an attacker to kill any of his enemies in one hit.
2. Artificially restricted ability to hit the same person several times in a day (one-per-day hit rule).
3. Artificially introduced tiredness intended to curtail the ability of small groups to attack larger groups effectively (but you can use tea and herbals, they said - not any more apparently!)

Magical advantages introduced specifically to benefit defenders and established characters. How can you not be sick of it?

Where is a list of counter-advantages artificially provided to raiders and murdering maniacs? It's as if everyone has agreed that they are lowlife scum and deserve no fair treatment. What you think about it in-game is your business, I got no beef with that. But out here, we must at least pretend to be impartial. At least pretend.

Stop arguing it... it is fair, as it allows people a chance to actually roleplay being attacked and fighting back. If everything were a one hit wonder...I wonder how many players would've quit or their characters would've killed or been killed. With the way cantr works lately, people seem to enjoy killing as if roleplay doesn't matter anymore.

[FrankieLeonie]

If you honestly think that Cantr is about combat then you are playing a different game then me. Glad I have not seen anything like this happen

[Meem]

To me, Cantr's about the roleplay...the community building and the relationships you make with the people of the towns, and friends... fighting is overrated in some circumstances.

[Cogliostro]

Hi Meem. It's always the same tired old retorts: down with powergaming, cries about so-called roleplaying (using Cantr to play dollhouse), "cantr is not about the combat" and "won't anyone think of the children?".

You can see how my own humble person gets constantly attacked on the forum for even bringing the issue of fairness/staff impartiality up. Heck, I'm even getting orders from you to stop it already. I must be bad with roleplaying and have no social skill, it's always said. Nobody inquires about my characters (not that I'd kiss and tell), it's ordinarily just presumed that they must be evil testosterone-filled powergamer tanks. It's really not like that at all, in reality.

Meanwhile, killing still IS roleplaying. Do you see? It is simply one of the facets of playing the role of evil. A very important role, for which we must provide a genuine space to thrive with every bit of care. Would you like only good roles in your world? That's possible, but not desirable, because without the evil side there will be no tension and no true good side to play for, either.

As is, there is less and less space for any kind of genuine evil in Cantr; as someone already noticed in this thread, we've gone and made it a complete logistical impossibility. That's why I am here arguing for the self evident fact that the maniacs who destroyed those towns with tea deserve their full chance to do so, if they play by the book, and it is certainly not a bug that such things as antisocial ultraviolence are possible. The current combat is as crappy as can be, and doesn't even fit the game's founding principles. Yet, it's what we have for now, and we BETTER play by the rules, and not go crying in panic to change everything as soon as something bad happens to a few established towns. Still I hope the emergency that this situation created will help shape up a new and better combat system, more satisfying and interesting for both sides.