Make wooden crates storage more

[wadko]

First, the comparison:

Small wooden cart
cost: 5000 grams of wood
time to build: 12 days
holds: 29820 grams
plus it has wheels and a lock, a person can sit in it (protection from animals)

Large wooden crate
cost: 2500 grams of wood
time to build: 5 days
holds: 4000 grams
you can't move the crate, no lock

Small wooden crate
cost: 900 grams od wood
time to build: 4 days (!)
holds: 1000 grams
you can move it anywhere (the only advantage of the crate)

So basicly you can use your wood for a moveable cart or 5 moveable crates... well, you can move the crate to a building but still it's not good enough.

I sugest to make the crates storage more resources. For example:
Large wooden crate - 30000 grams, make it moveable (dragable)
Small wooden crate - 10000 grams, and time to build: 2 day

[Cdls]

The problem with this (although I do see your point) is that if thinking on a logical scale (a mistake in the Cantr world, I know, but for sake of argument) the crates would not scale to that of a cart. The large crate alone would be larger than a single cart (as it can hold more) and three small crates would exceed the size of a cart.

My proposed change to your argument would be the following:

Large Crate:

Holding capacity = 10000g
Time to build = 4 days
Lockable = yes
Movable = yes

Small Crate:
Holding capacity = 2500g
Lockable = no
movable = yes

[wadko]

A cart has a total capacity of 90000 grams, but you need to substract the weight of a person siting in it and the lock. So 5000 grams of wood make a moveable cart that can hold 90000 grams (but you can use only 29820 grams). That's why I sugested 30000 grams for the large crate.

[Voltenion]

Your suggestion for the small crate is not small at all, Wadko. 10000g is too much for something supposedly small and taking only 2 days to build something that can hold that much is actually stupid.

I agree that this is needed and am much more inclined to Cdls' amounts of storage. I don't agree that the large crate should be lockable though. If they are well kept in a storage room, let the room be locked and not the crate. If the crates are exposed on opened buildings then you'll either have to take the risk or have active guards.

[wadko]

I took storage capacity for the crates proportionally (in proportion of used wood), my bad, I'm sorry that I'm thinking rationally...

Wooden crates shouldn't be lookable, on movies they can get into the crate with a crowbar in few seconds.

[Cdls]

A cart has a total capacity of 90000 grams, but you need to substract the weight of a person siting in it and the lock. So 5000 grams of wood make a moveable cart that can hold 90000 grams (but you can use only 29820 grams). That's why I sugested 30000 grams for the large crate.

I am well aware of the need to subtract a characters weight + lock requirements from the total amount. My point is that wooden carts are able to hold more than one large crate. Therefore, for your idea to make sense, the large crates storage amount should be reduced to reflect this.

Wooden crates shouldn't be lookable, on movies they can get into the crate with a crowbar in few seconds.

I am assuming you mean lockable?

Since you wish to go with the movie argument, please show me a movie in which people can heal with onions, are only allowed one hit per day, and well...I could go on and on, so please don't use the "it can be done in movies/real life" arguments as Cantr is nothing like the movies or real life.

Now, in keeping with the example you have gone with, yes, crates can be broken into by a crowbar in RL, but they still are needed to break open the crate. To appease the realists, we can propose that the large crates be lockable but have a 100% success rate for being broken into, and have the lock breaking project take a single tic.

[wadko]

I will not be fooled by your's (your'? yours? your?) PR tricks.

I am well aware of the need to subtract a characters weight + lock requirements from the total amount. My point is that wooden carts are able to hold more than one large crate. Therefore, for your idea to make sense, the large crates storage amount should be reduced to reflect this.

I don't get it. If you use 5000 grams of wood on a cart you get a lockable, moveable place for you and your stuff (resources, tools and weapons). If you use 5000 grams of wood for my crates you get only 2 moveable crates which can storage (the 2 of them) 60000 grams of resources (no tolls for now), you can move them from one city to another using a vehicle (and it can't be a wooden cart because one full crate would weight 35000 grams). IMO the balance in my sugestion is good.

Since you wish to go with the movie argument, please show me a movie in which people can heal with onions, are only allowed one hit per day

I'm sure that there is a anime that is using those things. Anyway...

Now, in keeping with the example you have gone with, yes, crates can be broken into by a crowbar in RL, but they still are needed to break open the crate. To appease the realists, we can propose that the large crates be lockable but have a 100% success rate for being broken into, and have the lock breaking project take a single tic.

I can go with this, but I'm sure that programing a lock inside a crate is time consuming and hard to do. So I think we should drop this feature until someone will program the mailbox properly.

If a sugestion is simpler = the time from acceptation to implementation is shortet

[Cdls]

I will not be fooled by your's (your'? yours? your?) PR tricks. :lol:

*gasp* I would never....well maybe I would... :lol:

IMO the balance in my sugestion is good.

I think you misunderstand my position on this. I did not say that your suggestion was bad, I am saying that from a scaling perspective, the values don't make sense and the values I proposed were in line with that idea.

I'm sure that there is a anime that is using those things. Anyway...

I also heard something about two girls and one cup...

So I think we should drop this feature until someone will program the mailbox properly.

+1

Especially if it delays implementation.

[wadko]

I think you misunderstand my position on this. I did not say that your suggestion was bad, I am saying that from a scaling perspective, the values don't make sense and the values I proposed were in line with that idea.

I did understood what you mean and I'm saying that my values of storage capacity are more in scale than those that you posted.

[Cdls]

Considering that your "scaling" makes it impossible for even one large crate to fit into a wooden cart, I find that hard to believe.



Now, if you wanna go with numbers:

reqs to make:
5000g wood
12 days
hammer
Wooden Cart capacity = 29820g (we will round up to 30000 for sake of argument)
Actual capacity = 90000g

% of usable capacity vs total capacity = 33%


Now, since you want to talk about scaling:

Large crate reqs
2500g wood
5 days
hammer
theoretical capacity vs wooden cart:
90000g/2 (since amount of resources halved) = 45000g
theoretical capacity vs storage space:
33% of 45000g = 15000g

So no, your numbers do not scale at all.
My numbers figure in for a 58% decrease in production time as well.

[wadko]

Yes, this is correct but it's only scaling, don't forget to balance it, becouse a cart has some advantages over the crate. Adding another 15000 grams to the capacity and we have a perfect balance with scaling.

[Cdls]

don't forget to balance it, becouse a cart has some advantages over the crate.

My numbers figure in for a 58% decrease in production time as well.

The 58% accounts for the lack of being able to use it as a vehicle as well as overall storage capacity and is a much more realistic approach than simply doubling the theoretical storage capacity as you are proposing.

[wadko]

58% is true in case of one crate, but with 5000 grams of wood you can make two crates (10 days). That means 17% decrease in production time, not 58%.

[Illidan]

If this is done, we need to REDO EVERY crate on game.

I think the solution is to reduce the material needed to the crates and increase only one time the capacity.

We need to remember that are better containers, like "container" with the capacity of 75 kilograms.

Btw, we need to do some of this "storages" (i think a better word is containers, but whatever) to be build inside ships and be lockable (i know this is difficult to do, but, "secure" a container is what we need to start the porterage system inside CANTR)

ps: i asked the google to translate "porterage", i don't know if it's right, but the concept i want to have is: transport something to somewhere else by some sort of reward, as money.
pps: sorry if anything made my post strange, i'm trying to write in english, I SWEAR!

[wadko]

If this is done, we need to REDO EVERY crate on game.

I don't know if this is true, but I think that someone just need to change one value in a table.

I think the solution is to reduce the material needed to the crates and increase only one time the capacity.

I don't exactly understood what you was trying to say, but either reducing the material used for a crate or making the capacity bigger will do the same. However reducing the material used for manufactoring crate will be unfair for those who already build them.

Btw, we need to do some of this "storages" (i think a better word is containers, but whatever) to be build inside ships and be lockable (i know this is difficult to do, but, "secure" a container is what we need to start the porterage system inside CANTR)

You can build storages on ships. If you want lockable containers then make your own thread, don't mess with mine

In this suggestion we discuss about changing wooden creats capacity. Only this.