Cogliostro wrote:Dudel, I gotta remind you of two things. First, that RP means playing roles. The more exciting we can make the possible roles in the game, the better for everyone. By far not everyone gets a battlesuit, but every clueless newspawn will dream of having one "someday", and eagerly take up the craptastic gruntwork role offered to him by a clever town leader in the meantime. These sorts of dynamics are as important, if not more so, than the actual combat itself which is, everyone agrees, pretty goofy in Cantr. The point is that gathering resources, stockpiling, manufacturing are all a means to some end in the player's minds; the suit represents that end mechanically - battle invincibility! Who doesn't want it? Of course, it has its own secret caveats that were already discussed here, but the players imagination and ego will be fired by the inherent promise, the actual possibility of ultimate power over others through technology. That's one really critical thing the game currently lacks, consider how useless all the current top-of-the-line war equipment actually is gameplay-wise in Cantr. Having it all literally gains you almost nothing, because you are still limited by the same thrice-overnerfed goofy and unfair combat rules that I ranted about here many times in the past. I'm striving in my own small way to find a solution, something that could resurrect a feeling of danger and opportunity in the heart of the Cantr universe. Please remember, RP means role play - every which kind of role that excites you is valid.
If you honestly want to improve RP quality and give roles a value how about you give current absolutely worthless rules a value. Examples:
Tailor
Jeweler
Musician
Artist
Poet
General all around Story Teller
Monk
Priest
Whatever
etc
Edit: Carpenter, blacksmith, boat maker, doctor, politician (not town leader), farmer, lumberjack.....
Combat is NOT where you start in qualifying RP roles for RP sake. You mean to say Cantr is an RPG and you are correct, however you are confusing others by stating "RP" (The written part of Cantr is what they want) when this is not your meaning at all. Don't talk to me about what "RP is" and what "RP isn't". To "play a role" is not true RPing. If such the case you are RPing just by being on the forum. This is a technicality and should be voided.
People want more of the written and this mechanic takes AWAY from that, not adds to it. Why? Cause now people have to be even more moving and clickfesty (your word from time before) in order to be specific as to targets, buildings, etc. You are only adding more "combat options" (which will end up being dragged back to their typical behaviors) rather than adding any RP. These are different things!
And as the combat system is "goofy" adding more things to add to the "goofyness" also solves nothing. Instead you just get more assbackwards combat except now with uber weapons.
The second thing I want to remind you is that the Dudel theory about "what Cantr is" is of no particular interest in the context of this particular discussion. I hope you understand, because theories are good things to come up with in the right place and time. What would be really, really useful is if you can come up with more "negative' scenarios (as detailed as possible) about how the battlesuits we were discussing are going to turn Cantr into a miserable place throughout, what the true abuse potential is, etc. etc.
Several were given by more than myself, it is redundant to repeat them.
And what "Cantr is" is a very valid argument. If you want Cantr to be a certain thing you add or take certain things from it and vise versa. More combat mechanics pushes Cantr closer to game and further from RP environment. Cantr players, by their very statements to me, state they DO NOT WANT THAT.
You pointed out so far that the distribution of resources is very uneven and some towns/empires will gain a fast upper hand in the battlesuit arms race I was dreaming. It's true, but that is a positive thing, isn't it? Described was the realistic shifting of power and its consolidation into central points of authority, very much a sociological matter of fact. The goofy combat system is one of the reasons why this process is constantly thwarted in Cantr. In your "Cogliostro wants a dystopia, we all want dollhouse-RP" view, something really important has been left out, namely that power struggles summoned out of instability have three natural phases: a restructuring to adapt to new conditions, a shootout, a shoutout (survivor roll-call). You speak of it as if it will be a continuous, neverending "shootout". But that's not true, I believe. We can expect, it seems to me, that after dominant forces emerge and assert themselves, they will try to establish control over the conquered towns and of necessity work to set up their own production and infrastracture there, if they wanna keep on expanding their evil (or illustious, matter of perspective) empire by making more and more expensive battlesuits and vying for dominance with other world powers.
Give it 3 RL months and you're back to the same demo you have now. A steady typical guard with specific people equipped with specific weapons in order to protect certain people. Once the tech level is reached, again, you're back to what you seem to despise so much. With even more time (A RL year, maybe?) everyone and their mother would have one of these things and you'd be back to square one, solving nothing.
This would be like taking things back to the "olden days" where iron stuff was apparently more rare. Eventually it wont be and you get the same thing you have now, except with different groups in power. Not a very good change in game dynamic is it? A change in social dynamic, maybe, but a game mechanic should change game dynamic which MIGHT change social dynamic.
AKA: A change in game mechanics that forces players to play the game in a different way. This suggestion does no such thing.
The suit just adds something extra which unbalances what is already there.
From the empire's point of view the society becomes stratified, cut in two: people with their own battlesuits who are a threat (or possible ally) and the peasants, who are a resource to be worked, milked by the empire. So, if you want to listen to me, we can certainly expect life to be back to its normal doll-house affect in all those conquered towns after the hypothetical battlesuits wars sweep the land. The towns will no longer be free, unless they can militarily defend themselves, but all in all the rustic life of the "peasant" in the periphery will continue pretty much unchanged, and as I see it, nothing will have been lost. And much cool stuff gained!
This is the same as it is now. No different than that one or two guys out in the woods kidnapping random people or whatever and the "neighboring empire" dealing with it. The Blackrocks had a NEAR IDENTICAL situation not long ago. Kiii had a situation like that with someone in Salt Desert. Know what happens in Blackrock society when you "demand freedom"? Ask whoever plays Pitor II, they'll tell you exactly what happens. Heck, anyone in Zuzi could tell you what happens when someone "goes against the grain".
Again, you are changing nothing at all... except maybe some battle mechanics. The worlds dynamic does not change and, in fact, you are simply making Combat (what most players wish to avoid, anyway) more tedious and filled with micromanagement.
Also note that very very statement earlier of "If this gets rejected I'm just going to suggest it again" is, in itself, a trolls statement. As well as suggesting I like "Cantr to be my doll house" which is not the case if you read more than your own threads. You can not "discredit me away".
Thank you very much, troll.
