Seeing more from a Vehicle

[Snake_byte]

I've noticed you can't see town vehicles unless occupied or town building from a vehicle... My suggestion is to see more from a vehicle.

Would, implementing this be sort of like implementing windows on buildings?

[Rob Maule]

I've noticed you can't see town vehicles unless occupied

What do you mean, exactly?

or town building from a vehicle

I think you mean that you can't see the buildings in a location if you're currently in a vehicle, correct? My guess is that it's setup that way because you should only be able to see the next location you want to move to. Seeing the town and then its buildings would be seeing the next two locations, similar to looking at a building from the outside and seeing the rooms within.

It's currently setup so that you can only hear characters talking while in a vehicle (or vice-versa). Other things like leaving the location, attacking (I think), and moving resources are hidden. It keeps people from seeing too much.

If you were allowed to see everything from a vehicle, it would be too easy to do things like work with machines and use radios, which is what buildings are for. They cut you off from the social environment of central town locations so that you can use higher-level things. A little separation, to me, seems like a good thing.

[Snake_byte]

I've noticed you can't see town vehicles unless occupied

What do you mean, exactly?

I'm speaking of all while standing inside a vehicle.

or town building from a vehicle

I think you mean that you can't see the buildings in a location if you're currently in a vehicle, correct?

Correct.

My guess is that it's setup that way because you should only be able to see the next location you want to move to. Seeing the town and then its buildings would be seeing the next two locations, similar to looking at a building from the outside and seeing the rooms within.

I don't really understand what you mean here? I'm not talking about seeing inside a vehicle.

If you were allowed to see everything from a vehicle, it would be too easy to do things like work with machines and use radios, which is what buildings are for. They cut you off from the social environment of central town locations so that you can use higher-level things. A little separation, to me, seems like a good thing.

As for using machines, you just can't use machines outside a vehicle while standing inside it. That would make no sense but you should at least be able to see them and buildings if you can see people.

-The reason I suggest it, is because in multi-passenger vehicles, where only one person has the key, the passengers cannot leave to see anything outside if all they want to do is see... Should just be able to look out the "window" Which vehicles do have and buildings don't...

[tiddy ogg]

I see your point... But can you see many buildings from a stationary vehicle in RL? If you're in an underground Cantrian car park, which all Cantrian vehicles must occupy*, you'd see nothing, especially if you have your own little garage there.
*This would explain it, and also explain why you can't see people trying to enter vehicles unsuccessfully unless they're brazen enough to start hacking at the lock.

[Rob Maule]

I think maybe some of the confusion can be explained with some examples.

Let's say you're in a building. You are now able to use more machinery, are protected from animal and character attacks, unable to catch sneezing, food on the floor doesn't rot, you can lock others out for security or privacy, and you can use radios.

Let's say you're in a parked van. Advantages include: using some machinery (actually built inside the vehicle), animals can't harm you, dropped food doesn't rot, you can lock others out, you can use a vehicle radio, you can hear everything that other characters say, and things can be passed to and from characters on the outside. Perhaps you are even free from sneezing. Being on a docked boat is basically the same thing (radios have to be in cabins, though). Some disadvantages are: not being able to see character actions other than talking and being susceptible to character attacks.

To put it simply, being in an engine powered vehicle is somewhere between being outside and being in a building. If you change anything, you end up gaining too much of an advantage.

Also, the point I was making about only seeing the next location is as follows. It's best not to think of it as real life. Think of it like a game. If you're in a building, you can see that interior rooms exist, but you cannot see inside of them (such as rooms in those rooms). You can also see that the outside exists, but you can't see anything there, either.

Now, if you're in a vehicle (let's say a large ship), you can see that a cabin exists, but not what's inside. You can also see that the outside exists. But you have an advantage over being in a building. You can see and hear the people that are outside. Not being able to see a location further makes sense.

[Snake_byte]

Yes, thank you Rob. Everything you're saying is true.

However, I'm not really speaking form an advantage point of view. I'm trying to point out an obvious conflict in common sense...

Such as being on a tandem and being able to see the people of a town and not buildings or vehicles which are without a doubt much larger than the characters.

Even if the tandem was a vehicle that in reality had walls, it still wouldn't make sense as you do need a window to "drive".

But if I'm the only one who sees it that way I can live with it. It's really not a problem and I don't want to just create useless work for the staff.

Just thought I'd bring it up.

[Piscator]

The one thing that really bugged me in the past was not being able to see when people leave. I once waited on someone to leave, who had left days ago. Since you are able to see the people around you, you should also be able to notice when someone leaves or arrives in my opinion.

[Sabsi]

You can also see when someone spawns, but neither when he arrives from another location nor when he leaves. It really doesn't make any sense to see the people, but not see them arrive or leave.

Other things like leaving the location, attacking (I think), and moving resources are hidden.

I witnessed how one character attacked another one outside while my character was within a vehicle, so obviously this isn't one of the things that remain hidden for characters within vehicles. I don't know if you can see when characters within another vehicle are attacked, though.

It is also really weird that you can't see when a character from outside gives something to a character who is inside a vehicle with your character.

[Rob Maule]

I'm trying to point out an obvious conflict in common sense...

Believe me, I used to think that way, too. Of course, it would be too weird to have boats fly over land or something like that. So in that sense, Cantr does model real life. But in a game that's setup to be as fair to each character as possible, you have to think about balance over realism. That's just my two cents.

I do think there are a lot of weird things that go on in Cantr, though. But I think that's part of its charm. Imagine what a scary world it would be if you could attack more than once per day, could just jump right onto any boat you saw (bypassing locks), or steal someone's hard-earned possessions without them knowing.

[Snake_byte]

I witnessed how one character attacked another one outside while my character was within a vehicle, so obviously this isn't one of the things that remain hidden for characters within vehicles. I don't know if you can see when characters within another vehicle are attacked, though.

I have attacked from a vehicle to another as well as been attacked from one while in another.