Poll: Language Learning

[Dudel]

The problem is a lot of foreign people don't respect English speakers.

I've bumped into a few problems, FEW (Several on just one character) where just the emotes etc were in plain disregard to those around.

My rule on life is the simple one "Either everyone plays fair or no one plays at all." I know enough of a few languages to "get by". Anyone in Chat knows I'm actually learning/have learned a minute amount of Polish. I've a character who can speak a well enough amount of Polish... and I don't actually know Polish. It is rather obvious that I, the player, do not but there is nothing that says a monolingual "can't play with others".

However, the problem starts when those around "realize" that someone understands, even a small amount. They start changing languages, using slang terms... and misspelling things on purpose.

Its an OOC thought/CRB and a majority of it can not be proven. Hell I've had a guy even change languages on me JUST BECAUSE I understood something. (That straight up pissed me off)

The easiest way is to let NO ONE go swimming because one guy did, in fact, drop a load in the water.

[Josephpowers]

Dudel...

That's when you get angry and attack them all with your sword.

problem solved.

[Dudel]

Dudel...

That's when you get angry and attack them all with your sword.

problem solved.

Breach of character, strictly non-violent.

Breach of character, must be told to attack. (Can not hurt others of his own will)

Breach of character, would rather just tell them to leave....



Dudel shall continue?

[Voltenion]

The problem is that having foreign language speakers in your town more and more becomes the norm, rather than an exception. While I usually like meeting foreigners, it can get a bit annoying having to cope with them from the beginning. Especially new players can be put off when their first impression of the game is someone speaking in a language they don't understand. There's also the problem of frequent breaching of the rules, which is another reason why it would be favourable that only prepared characters come in touch with other languages.

The problem here is the spawning system, not people learning languages. Like you said, it is interesting to meet foreigner.

The problem is a lot of foreign people don't respect English speakers.

Yes, it only happens to you.
People emoting in their own language when they are in a foreign language town happens to everyone, not just you Dudel. Sorry.
It would be easier not to get pissed about it if, when you asked in OOC if they could emote in English as you are, they tell you in OOC to stfu.

Curiously this only seems to have become a problem though, since the English areas have become infected.

[Dudel]

Right, poor assumption on my part, apologies.

Rather, it is because people don't respect people in general.

[Voltenion]

Right, poor assumption on my part, apologies.

Rather, it is because people don't respect people in general.

Yep, you nailed it this time.

[Doug R.]

While the problem Piscator speaks of may be an irritant, it's not the problem that I'm referring to.

The problem I'm referring to are the numbers of non-English newspawns that when they appear in an English town, just start speaking English because that's the easiest way to get by, and it's impossible for them to get caught at it. The only way this was discovered was because I witnessed it first hand, when a new Dutch guy, after realizing no one understood him, started speaking English. During the investigation, I discovered half the characters in the town were actually registered Dutch, and of them, only 2 were actually known as such. The rest started speaking English after spawning. This is a huge problem, because the more Dutch there are, the more Dutch will spawn (and are ignored by their Dutch brethren, because they don't want to be caught speaking Dutch). If any of them actually wanted to play there, they would have spoken Dutch and coped with it. We have people, all over, spawning in places that they don't want to play, and whether or not they play it right, go to sleep, or cheat, they make it more probable that another of their language will spawn there, yet another character cast into an area that the majority of their peers don't have any fun playing in.

Curiously this only seems to have become a problem though, since the English areas have become infected.

People were complaining about it for months before it was discovered why this was happening, and they were told to deal with it because no one knew why. Now that this situation is breeding CRBs on an epic, uncontrollable scale (and was exacerbated by CRBs in the first place), something needs to be done - either spawning changed, or the rules.

[catpurr]

The problem I'm referring to are the numbers of non-English newspawns that when they appear in an English town, just start speaking English because that's the easiest way to get by, and it's impossible for them to get caught at it. The only way this was discovered was because I witnessed it first hand, when a new Dutch guy, after realizing no one understood him, started speaking English. During the investigation, I discovered half the characters in the town were actually registered Dutch, and of them, only 2 were actually known as such.

I see the problem, but the current situation is no solution for this at all. Suppose they all roleplayed to learn english within the rulebook but now live with the newly aquired language in an english town. Still a new dutch player will spawn there and all speak english...

[Doug R.]

The problem I'm referring to are the numbers of non-English newspawns that when they appear in an English town, just start speaking English because that's the easiest way to get by, and it's impossible for them to get caught at it. The only way this was discovered was because I witnessed it first hand, when a new Dutch guy, after realizing no one understood him, started speaking English. During the investigation, I discovered half the characters in the town were actually registered Dutch, and of them, only 2 were actually known as such.

I see the problem, but the current situation is no solution for this at all. Suppose they all roleplayed to learn english within the rulebook but now live with the newly aquired language in an english town. Still a new dutch player will spawn there and all speak english...

Yes, that's true, and that's fine. That's how it should be. That way, they could decide to leave and find their homeland, make an effort to start a new homeland where they are, or the indigenous language could decide to wipe them out. However, if half the population masquerades, then that takes away two options, and robs the rule-followers of help.

The situation, in all the language groups (see the request from the Portugeuse), is too far advanced to fix. The English area is over-run, and it'll stay that way. The characters that are there aren't going anywhere, nor will the far-flung Portuguese suddenly warp to a dense area.

What needs to be addressed is what caused the problem in the first place.

Newspawns should go where they're wanted.

[Dudel]

The only way to fix an epidemic is to purge those infected, FYI.

Putting in place "new rules" or changing how things "work now" wont stop the current problem without removing those who caused it in the first place. You'll still get people "spawning where they shouldn't".

The FIRST thing that needs to be done is to find a way to fix what is currently happening AND THEN worry about the rule change.

But it doesn't matter, nothing will get done anyway.

[catpurr]

If anyone adds any other options fine. But who here is in favor of a concrete rule?

Option 5: Make language learning a project. The game tracks which languages you can speak, if you want more, you need to make a project, learning a language takes a year (yes its less then the 2 minimum current, but you cannot chop wood or anyting wile you are at it, you focus completly on language learning). You need a person who is capable of that language participating in a language learning project.

I just don't now how to transfer from current status. Let living characters select what languages they are capable of (learned in the past?)... some kind of grace period?

--
Otherwise I'm with Doug R. (at least in the way I want to read it). Additionally I wonder, why this regit language rules were set into place. Sometimes I think, it was because somebody wanted to force nationality into the game through the backdoor of languages. Can't we just all talk like we want (and even if someone uses babblefish, who cares really?).

We just need to find some working system that lets people spawn into places where the language they prefer talking is talked.

Therefore Option 6: Make the game autodetect which languages are spoken in a place, and use this as spawn information. Well this is technically possible, just put the messages into google, and look at the region domains of the first ten hits, a fair estimate of which language it is. Yes I know its never going to be coded. Just wanted to document the idea. Oh btw, automated processing of google results is AFAIK against their TOS; so illegal...

[Dudel]

Can we not introduce new features into Cantr before old ones are corrected first?

Adding all of that will take too much time to correctly implement and result in never happening. While people sit on the thought that "things'll fix" because of said suggestion... things actually get worse. There needs to be a manner of fixing the problem, the way it is now, without adding a whole new layer of complication.

A spawn system, by nature, should be rather simple.... but if I had my way, we would combine the two current spawn systems. Characters are only to spawn on X island but from there it is random as to what town by Y number of people, whatever/etc.

However I'm still for killing off anyone talking a language "they shouldn't" as this is still a rather nasty CRB bit of noise that'll only get worse by the day.

Also: I hear this has been a problem for some time yet nothing was done about it. Dudel request clarification on this matter.

[Piscator]

People were complaining about it for months before it was discovered why this was happening, and they were told to deal with it because no one knew why. Now that this situation is breeding CRBs on an epic, uncontrollable scale (and was exacerbated by CRBs in the first place), something needs to be done - either spawning changed, or the rules.

I'm not quite sure I agree with you here. The rules were fine, the problem is that no-one enforced them.

[IHaveNoLegs]

The rules were fine, the problem is that no-one enforced them.

I'm not so sure that this should be in the past tense

[Doug R.]

People were complaining about it for months before it was discovered why this was happening, and they were told to deal with it because no one knew why. Now that this situation is breeding CRBs on an epic, uncontrollable scale (and was exacerbated by CRBs in the first place), something needs to be done - either spawning changed, or the rules.

I'm not quite sure I agree with you here. The rules were fine, the problem is that no-one enforced them.

You have a way of over-simplifying things.

1) You can't enforce violations that you can't detect, and once it's reported, the damage is almost always irreversible.

2) It was never a rule that was very enforceable. Since events aren't stored for more than 7 days, all we can do is ask if someone role-played learning the language, and if they say yes, we have no way to disprove that.

Of course the rule sounds good on paper, but those of you who don't have the misfortune of having to deal with enforcing this policy have no idea how futile it is.