Foreign Influences in English Language

[Idriveayugo]

Therefore if one english character understands single foreign wordy or phrases that have gained much popularity in english no harm is done. He still cant have a meaningful conversation with a french just because he knows what "vive la revolution" means. A phrase for which almost any educated english person knows or can guess quite easily what it means.

In the case of viva la revolucion there was an in game note written by some dead english speaking guy that said it. If other people copied that would it be a CRB? It shouldn't be....

[Dudel]

Just don't speak/type fluent other languages then that which you picked to spawn in and the rest can be ignored.

Seriously, of the actual CRB garbage that I hear about and/or see... some minor language alterations is BS argumentation.

Not to mention that USA English isn't even bloody English! Regardless of years the word has been "accepted", more then HALF of the "English words" that exist aren't freaking English. Most are Spanish, French and Latin... that I remember.

Another Note: If someone shouts "Viva la Resistance" or says "Whoa, Deja Vu" you can always say IC "What? Are you speaking English?" or flat out ignore them.

Technically, they are not "speaking/typing English", but COME ON PEOPLE! We are getting anal about things, here, and its rather annoying.

[SekoETC]

I wouldn't raise a fuss about someone saying Viva la Resistance or Bon appetit or deja vu, but my characters wouldn't use such expressions and I'd try to find an alternative expression.

[Doug R.]

I wouldn't raise a fuss about someone saying Viva la Resistance or Bon appetit or deja vu, but my characters wouldn't use such expressions and I'd try to find an alternative expression.

My sentiments exactly.

[Idriveayugo]

What if someone said "then let them eat cake"? Would that be a CRB? There's no cake in Cantr right?

This whole thing on language is ridiculous. If people are bilingual screw it, let them utilize both their multi-lingual knowledge without having to "learn". Hell, it may allow for actual people who aren't fluent in a language to more easily learn that language.

[Purohueso]

Reading the discussion I just start guessing with happens, for example, between spanish and portuguese characters..., the language is different, and we can't write the other, but we haven't almost any problem to understand it completely..., what should do the character in a situation when the other language-speaker speak to him?

Also it can be extended to other romantic languages as french or italian (I can read them understanding more than half of it, and just using the similarity in words), and obviously I don't forgot about the similarities in northern languages, or a bunch of latin terms in english.

[catpurr]

Reading the discussion I just start guessing with happens, for example, between spanish and portuguese characters..., the language is different, and we can't write the other, but we haven't almost any problem to understand it completely..., what should do the character in a situation when the other language-speaker speak to him?

Also it can be extended to other romantic languages as french or italian (I can read them understanding more than half of it, and just using the similarity in words), and obviously I don't forgot about the similarities in northern languages, or a bunch of latin terms in english.

I think there was discussion some while ago about german<->netherlands characters. The languages are similar enough each one can have a fair guess what the other was saying without actually beeing able to reproduce it.I think many players to play their character that way that chars understood what the players was able to guess. Its easier for player who don't actually speak both languages.

It was explained ingame, well since the germans and netherlands shared one island for so long, its not surprising that the languages sound similar. (Just fortget about the spanish on the same island


On another note to continue where Dudel started. Heck there isn't even *one* english. There is at least UK english and US english. For the joke of it, I say, we should have characters start in either of these two languages and not be able to understand the other until they roleplay it!

[frenchfisher]

Not to mention that USA English isn't even bloody English!

Au contraire (oh, the horror, "French"!), modern English English isn't English. American English is rather closer to Shakespeare's English than modern English spoken in Great Britain, in lexicon and pronunciation both.

But, as a linguistics major, well, borrowing happens, so there's no use in forbidding it. Sacrebleu, compadre: discussions of "language purity" are utter garbage. There is no such thing.

[chase02]

This thread cracks me up, in a it's so pathetic it makes me want to cry kind of way.

I make a point of using idioms etc in-game just to see all the nazi roleplayers come out going "I don't know what you're talking about". LOL. Seriously guise.

This is entertainment, we're all here for fun, not to argue about which words should be allowed to be typed due to their OMG NON ENGLISH LINEAGE.

I'm not going to start another "you should/shouldn't roleplay crickets as they aren't hardcoded in" debate (I hope) but maybe people should be a little more open to what is accepted in RP - we're trying to ATTRACT players here, not scare off the few that are willing to sign up and actually give it a go.

[catpurr]

I'd personally wish all this "you have to RP language learning otherwise CRB!" thing would alltogether go away. If you decide to roleplay you character in a way it can natively speak X languages it does. Only make sure you can at least speak the language you signed up with. I don't think its actually unfair. If you didn't care enough so far to learn any foreign language its your short.

[SekoETC]

But if you don't for example know any Polish and would like to learn some to communicate with Polish characters in Cantr, without a rule forbidding the use of OOC knowledge, they would be likely to get impatient with your primitive attempts and switch to English just to make things advance faster, thus ruining your chance to learn. If they were using understandable English while you were sticking to words you learn from ingame dictionaries and through guessing, you'd end up sounding like an idiot and your knowledge of their language would never advance beyond that point, since they didn't see it necessary to correct you.

[catpurr]

But if you don't for example know any Polish and would like to learn some to communicate with Polish characters in Cantr, without a rule forbidding the use of OOC knowledge, they would be likely to get impatient with your primitive attempts and switch to English just to make things advance faster, thus ruining your chance to learn. If they were using understandable English while you were sticking to words you learn from ingame dictionaries and through guessing, you'd end up sounding like an idiot and your knowledge of their language would never advance beyond that point, since they didn't see it necessary to correct you.

Really? My experiences with any non-english speakers are very different! If they realize you are honestly tring to learn their language they feel very flattered. Normally people just love it and will help you great deals.

[raspberrytea]

One of my characters had the fortune to come along with a Polish mapmaker and also attempt to learn Polish at the same time-- and that was incredibly fun to roleplay. If not for the learning-IC rule, I probably wouldn't have bothered, seeing as Polish isn't particularly close to any of the languages I know, and learning it would have taken a chunk of time I wasn't willing to devote.

[Dudel]

Queen's English, American English... whatever the hell ever.

My view on this, be that Portuguese with Spanish or Dutch with German, if its close enough... why the hell bother?

Hell I know a little bit of some Spanish and Polish (VERY LITTLE) and with words from other languages looking slightly similar to my own language sometimes I can make out whatever is being "said". Not to mention that you ARE ALLOWED, at least according to the "language CRB", to use a translator or know the words in emotes and respond to them.... in that character's language. (On a side note It would solve a SHMIT LOAD of problems if emotes were automatically translated, or did the best they could.)

Chase, the funny thing here is that the "mechanical people" are honestly the ones who are more "open" in terms of language. That being because Cantr states "English" or "Spanish" or whatever but doesn't specify what is, or is not, "okay" within that particular language. So anything from slang from recent years to your OWN BLOODY MADE UP WORDS, is (at least according to the rule of Cantr) technically okay. Technically, as the word and/or phrase is in either an English documented source (Dictionary/Encyclopedia/whatever), said phrase and/or word is actually part of the language. ALSO, any word used by the majority of its speakers is ALSO considered part of the language. (See: "Slang")

Hell, "grindage", "snackage" and "foodage" are not "real words" but if one wanted to use them, in implication of food/eatables, within Cantr you could. Some characters, and people, will not understand but then you point to said object or tell them the meaning.

The CRB also does not say that you can't understand Dutch because you understand German. If the languages are similar then even in reality people could be able to kinda communicate. The language CRB says you can only understand "your own"... and these are close enough, it is not "your fault" that they are this way. (Actually they probably both originate from the same area, which is why they are so similar, so technically it IS the same language.)

My only problem with multilingual characters is it fucks up the spawning system. That's my only problem with them. HOWEVER, when people change languages because a character responded to emoting... that's an OOC choice and only cause you wanna be a prick. This is not a "CRB" but it IS total douche-baggery and I would/did report the thing.

On Another Note: I stopped reporting language CRBs. I just don't care enough to bother with something so dumb as people changing languages... except that it messes up spawning (as I said).

I'd rather deal with OOC organization, character grouping (doesn't refer to own characters grouping with own) and a lot of other things, FIRST.

[Gran]

This thread cracks me up, in a it's so pathetic it makes me want to cry kind of way.

I make a point of using idioms etc in-game just to see all the nazi roleplayers come out going "I don't know what you're talking about". LOL. Seriously guise.

Since the only "nazi" who thinks about matters of linguistical purism (or at least I don't see any interest coming from any other person in this thread) and I were not arguing about anything, I think I could come out saying "I don't know what you're talking about".

I stated something that I was thinking about, an ephemeral opinion, without any actual basis on reality, and defended it. Defended it for me. to answer questions posed to me to strengthen that model within my own soul. It was less like a discussion for me, and more like a monologue. ;)

I don't see why anyone would be obliged to write like I try to, or desire to. If people are smart enough to understand what "per se", "au contraire" and "c'est le vie", they probably are smart enough to type correctly and role-play nicely.

But I have liked so much to cause this amount of annoyance. :D