How come almost nothing can be made out of onion in Cantr, does anyone know? Except maybe one of the kebabs might require a small amount of them, but it's very weird that they're our most efficient raw healing food and yet nothing healing can be made out of them!
In real life I mince em', I stew em', I even bake them in campfire embers. All delicious!
Wouldn't be nice if the presses/cheesepresses for example could make onion purée, by just squeezing them and giving you a lighter onion paste with somewhat better healing properties -just how it works with all the other veggies and fruits?
Question about Onion - man's best friend
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Cogliostro
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Dudel
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Cogliostro
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Dudel
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Cogliostro
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Piscator
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Like Dudel said, feel free to suggest a meal (or several). I'm not aware of any reasons why onions shouldn't be used in reciepes.
edit: Except that onions are quite powerful already and don't need to be further advantaged. Derived food shouldn't be too powerful to keep the game balance.
edit: Except that onions are quite powerful already and don't need to be further advantaged. Derived food shouldn't be too powerful to keep the game balance.
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Cogliostro
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Seeing as how derived food always requires additional work being put into it, that also has to be taken into account, otherwise that becomes useless work. Reading about foods in the wiki I have the nagging suspicion that a lot of the current foods have not been balanced in this sense, even if they have been in the overall scheme of not making anything too powerful.
What I mean is that there are things you can spend a lot of time making and get a truly pathetic result out of. Better get that shovel and spend the time gathering more onion - and that isn't so nice.
What I mean is that there are things you can spend a lot of time making and get a truly pathetic result out of. Better get that shovel and spend the time gathering more onion - and that isn't so nice.
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Piscator
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Well, preparing food is usually not about drawing more effect from the same amount of food, but about making it easier to carry or stretching it with other materials.
I would say, make some suggestions and we will see what we can make of it. (It should be a complete dish and at least fairly common (somewhere). ) How about onion pie, onion salad, onion soup, filled onions or goulash?
I would say, make some suggestions and we will see what we can make of it. (It should be a complete dish and at least fairly common (somewhere). ) How about onion pie, onion salad, onion soup, filled onions or goulash?
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Cogliostro
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Oh man. I'm getting hungry just reading your ideas, Pisc. 
For sure the french onion soup is famous and it's even believed to have healing properties by the folkspeople at some places.
I've also baked delicious onion bread on a few occasions. Should be no problem to make that some kind of a healing food since we do have gingerbread and every other kind.
And what about onion rings? "American" classic, after all. Though if that had any healing properties we might incur the wrath of diet-watchers all over the world.
I thought there was some big problem with it, but if it's just never been suggested, then we should be able to open up a whole branch of excellent onion-based dishes, some healing, some just filling.
For sure the french onion soup is famous and it's even believed to have healing properties by the folkspeople at some places.
I've also baked delicious onion bread on a few occasions. Should be no problem to make that some kind of a healing food since we do have gingerbread and every other kind.
And what about onion rings? "American" classic, after all. Though if that had any healing properties we might incur the wrath of diet-watchers all over the world.
I thought there was some big problem with it, but if it's just never been suggested, then we should be able to open up a whole branch of excellent onion-based dishes, some healing, some just filling.
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Piscator
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Many of the existing machines are overladen with possible projects so we should select perhaps three or four dishes that a) are fairly common b) can be made from available resources and c) are different enough from each other in respect to their ingredients and cooking equipment.
It would of course have to be discussed in RD too. Maybe there are problems I'm not aware of.
It would of course have to be discussed in RD too. Maybe there are problems I'm not aware of.
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Cogliostro
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Okay. My suggestion would be to have around 4 like so:
1. A "complex" Onion soup based on the famous French "Soupe a L'Onion". Full of "rare" ingredients, but worth it.
400g onions
50g garlic
100g flour
50g sugar
50g wine
350g water
Resulting in 1000g of onion soup with excellent healing-food properties, about 5-6% per 100g. Any suggestions for what equipments should be used to make this? Only allow it to be made with the large steel pot maybe, to toughen production?
2. Onion bread.
(using propane oven for simplicity, adjust amounts for others same as for all the current breads)
1000g wheat flour
500g onions
(Automatic project: baking onion bread)
Produces 1000g onion bread in a day. Moderate healing properties like gingerbread but somewhat lower. Maybe about 45g healing 1% damage, or 2.2% per 100g.
3. Stewed onions? Should be a "low end" simple to make kind of project where the onions are just stewed in own juice with a fire or grill, becoming more easy to carry in the usual amount we do that for other foods, and that's it. Now in real life that's about the most classic "automatic project"- dig fresh onions below the hot embers of a campfire and then after a while enjoy. Should it need manual work or not?
4. Dried onions. Made with drying rack only, the usual reductions in weight like with potato chips. Auto project. I suggest this should be set as a "middleware" product, so it cannot be eaten.
1000g onions
produces: 500g dry onions (?)
4. Last but not least, medicinal onion powder! Made manually from dry onions with a mortar and pestle at the apothecary table. Should be a considerable improvement for the carry weight/heal properties relation, something perhaps around 4.3% per 100g? (calculation: 1000g onions + 2 additional days of work and machinery) Made at 250g per day.
500g dry onions
mortar & pestle, apothecary table
produces: 250g onion powder
1. A "complex" Onion soup based on the famous French "Soupe a L'Onion". Full of "rare" ingredients, but worth it.
400g onions
50g garlic
100g flour
50g sugar
50g wine
350g water
Resulting in 1000g of onion soup with excellent healing-food properties, about 5-6% per 100g. Any suggestions for what equipments should be used to make this? Only allow it to be made with the large steel pot maybe, to toughen production?
2. Onion bread.
(using propane oven for simplicity, adjust amounts for others same as for all the current breads)
1000g wheat flour
500g onions
(Automatic project: baking onion bread)
Produces 1000g onion bread in a day. Moderate healing properties like gingerbread but somewhat lower. Maybe about 45g healing 1% damage, or 2.2% per 100g.
3. Stewed onions? Should be a "low end" simple to make kind of project where the onions are just stewed in own juice with a fire or grill, becoming more easy to carry in the usual amount we do that for other foods, and that's it. Now in real life that's about the most classic "automatic project"- dig fresh onions below the hot embers of a campfire and then after a while enjoy. Should it need manual work or not?
4. Dried onions. Made with drying rack only, the usual reductions in weight like with potato chips. Auto project. I suggest this should be set as a "middleware" product, so it cannot be eaten.
1000g onions
produces: 500g dry onions (?)
4. Last but not least, medicinal onion powder! Made manually from dry onions with a mortar and pestle at the apothecary table. Should be a considerable improvement for the carry weight/heal properties relation, something perhaps around 4.3% per 100g? (calculation: 1000g onions + 2 additional days of work and machinery) Made at 250g per day.
500g dry onions
mortar & pestle, apothecary table
produces: 250g onion powder
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Piscator
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I'm afraid that this will most likely not be accepted in this form.
About 1) The recipe is too complex. I would like more natural recipes too, but in the current set up of the game the one or other resource will always be unavailable. In a world of three ingredient meals, such a complicated food item would also seem out of place. (Although I think that many recipes could be updated when herb gardens are much more common.)
About 2) Seems pretty acceptable. The onion ratio would likely have to be lower and the total daily production too.
About 3,4 and 5) I don't think we need recipes that only require onions. Especially not three of them.
I also understand healing foods not primarily as a medicine, but as food that has by chance healing properties. Healing food is one of the quirky sides of Cantr and I don't think we should stress that by introducing medical onion powder. I would rather introduce herb mixtures and the like and go towards a more ""realistic"" healing system.
About 1) The recipe is too complex. I would like more natural recipes too, but in the current set up of the game the one or other resource will always be unavailable. In a world of three ingredient meals, such a complicated food item would also seem out of place. (Although I think that many recipes could be updated when herb gardens are much more common.)
About 2) Seems pretty acceptable. The onion ratio would likely have to be lower and the total daily production too.
About 3,4 and 5) I don't think we need recipes that only require onions. Especially not three of them.
I also understand healing foods not primarily as a medicine, but as food that has by chance healing properties. Healing food is one of the quirky sides of Cantr and I don't think we should stress that by introducing medical onion powder. I would rather introduce herb mixtures and the like and go towards a more ""realistic"" healing system.
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Cogliostro
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I see your point about the powder and dried onion. Okay, I guess we can do without that. Maybe it could be kept as an idea to be used later on for different (new) medicine mixtures.
But the French onion soup? We need that! The ingredients are based on the real recipe, but loosely - that wasn't my main reason there. The reason for such a diverse set of requirements for this item is that it's quite powerful in its finished form as a healing food, so I was trying to compensate for that, intentionally making it so that fewer characters will be able to cook this on a regular basis. It's a kind of onion-based deluxe item. The game's cooking and tool menu includes very many foreign words, so perhaps this one can actually bear the original oh-so-fancy French name, so that people looking in the menu know right away this soup won't be anything easy. Seeing just "onion soup" people might get the wrong idea about the complexity of the recipe.
Did you mean that it's too complex as in that is not implementable because there is a restriction in the code?
And here I was thinking you'd say the soup was "too easy"
But the French onion soup? We need that! The ingredients are based on the real recipe, but loosely - that wasn't my main reason there. The reason for such a diverse set of requirements for this item is that it's quite powerful in its finished form as a healing food, so I was trying to compensate for that, intentionally making it so that fewer characters will be able to cook this on a regular basis. It's a kind of onion-based deluxe item.
The game's cooking and tool menu includes very many foreign words, so perhaps this one can actually bear the original oh-so-fancy French name, so that people looking in the menu know right away this soup won't be anything easy. Seeing just "onion soup" people might get the wrong idea about the complexity of the recipe.
Did you mean that it's too complex as in that is not implementable because there is a restriction in the code?
And here I was thinking you'd say the soup was "too easy"
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Piscator
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Well, I wouldn't get as high with the healing properties either, so it wouldn't be too easy.
Anyway, as strange as it seems, I would at least remove the water from the recipe. Water has been assumed in food preparation so far (with some exceptions) and I would like to carry on with this tradition for consistency.
Anyway, as strange as it seems, I would at least remove the water from the recipe. Water has been assumed in food preparation so far (with some exceptions) and I would like to carry on with this tradition for consistency.
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