Battle dynamic , Evil and Nice.

[Caesar]

Just as I pointed out in our other thread, I'll point out again here: All arguments to the effect that "it would be impossible to kill characters who had lots of healing food" are moot if you consider what you're saying with that. You're saying that you'd like the ability to take advantage of a player's inactivity in the game and kill their character before they wake and click that "EAT" button. That's all you're saying, because if the player is awake, they will be clicking that EAT button and you will not be able to kill them. Under the current system!

Basically, yours is a criticism of healing foods as such, which doesn't belong where we discuss auto vs manual healing.

Why do you think that more episodic players should be disadvantaged and their characters killed? They can be just as interesting as roleplayers and everything else as the people who are able to dedicate many hours daily to Cantr alone. It really isn't fair to say that you SHOULD be able to take advantage of their episodic rather than constant logins and kill their character before the PLAYER can react to your game actions.

I'm trying to point out that wanting to take advatage of a player's delayed reaction due not being logged in is really against the spirit of Cantr on the whole.

Which is not what I am doing. To prevent this automatic healing is not the way. You should instead make EVERYONE to heal just a bit each day. This way everyone will have the same rate of healing. (Perhaps a base rate and a double for eating healing food that day.)

I must note I already suggested this.

[Cogliostro]

Well, I don't understand with my brain how healing a small amount each day would help against clickfests involving healing foods. I guess you're saying we should remove healing foods (or nerf them heavily). Many players are against that idea, including me. We just like to be able to heal and get on with playing.

Even when it is unrealistic (kilograms of onions). Many things in Cantr are not realistic and we don't care about that too much, so long as it is interesting!

Remember the pet peeves I claimed the soapbox with: clickfests ands combat being safe. It's grand we all agree so far about the latter.

If we added critical hits without adding auto-heal, then crowds will rush this thread complaining that "the game is being unbalanced and peaceful characters don't want to die more than they die now, so we are against this". See, I pretty cleverly calculated it, there's a useful thing in it for both the Evil and the Nice. Or so I was thinking. No idea what it's going to turn out as.

[Caesar]

Well, I don't understand with my brain how healing a small amount each day would help against clickfests involving healing foods. I guess you're saying we should remove healing foods (or nerf them heavily). Many players are against that idea, including me. We just like to be able to heal and get on with playing.

Even when it is unrealistic (kilograms of onions). Many things in Cantr are not realistic and we don't care about that too much, so long as it is interesting!

Then be unrealistic and never eat at all.
It will still kill you.
Or you can be unrealistic and never try to stay awake to safe yourself and just get killed.

[Cogliostro]

Caesar, I am not getting any of the stuff you're saying. Pass the peace pipe .

[SekoETC]

If healing foods were nerfed so that all healing was slow but a person wouldn't instantly get weak after suffering damage, that way people wouldn't be completely doomed if they get hit first. I think it would be pretty neat if someone could still fight back at full intensity even if they lost initiative. A person could keep fighting and risk getting killed, or they could hit back once and then try to escape. I think this would make fighting more interesting.

[Caesar]

Caesar, I am not getting any of the stuff you're saying. Pass the peace pipe .

Then I will have to say that being active being necessary to survive is part of Cantreality, which is the reason many suggestions are being shot down.

[Cogliostro]

You're right Caesar, but it's part of Cantr-reality due to necessity and many kludges piled on top of each other, not by design. In other words, clickfesting or babysitting characters is not our idea of fun for Cantrians. All I'm saying is that we should move forward in this respect, even in small steps like this, fixing one part at a time when we can. Instead of just gruffly saying "deal with it" and forcing players to stay awake at night babysitting their character who happened to get into some fight.

I get that your character is special and doesn't like how onions taste so that doesn't work for you. But then again, there are many vegetarian characters who should be complaining about auto-eating of normal food which sometimes makes them eat meat. If they did come and complain we would tell them to go away, complaining about things like that in a heroic ProgD implementation for the convenience of all players and betterment of the game - is just being anal retentive.

Seko, the initiative part in my opinion is just right. Having the initiative SHOULD grant a very weighty advatage under any combat system. That's the way it is in life, so whenever a model includes it, it becomes more lifelike and interesting. Any combatant, even highly trained, who has suffered a surprise blow is going to be completely helpless for a certain length of time. And we're talking hand-to-hand! In Cantr we have weapons. A surprise blow with a weapon, especially from a skilled attacker, means death in real life 101 times out of 100.

[Caesar]

You're right Caesar, but it's part of Cantr-reality due to necessity and many kludges piled on top of each other, not by design. In other words, clickfesting or babysitting characters is not our idea of fun for Cantrians. All I'm saying is that we should move forward in this respect, even in small steps like this, fixing one part at a time when we can. Instead of just gruffly saying "deal with it" and forcing players to stay awake at night babysitting their character who happened to get into some fight.

I get that your character is special and doesn't like how onions taste so that doesn't work for you. But then again, there are many vegetarian characters who should be complaining about auto-eating of normal food which sometimes makes them eat meat. If they did come and complain we would tell them to go away, complaining about things like that in a heroic ProgD implementation for the convenience of all players and betterment of the game - is just being anal retentive.

Seko, the initiative part in my opinion is just right. Having the initiative SHOULD grant a very weighty advantage under any combat system. That's the way it is in life, so whenever a model includes it, it becomes more lifelike and interesting. Any combatant, even highly trained, who has suffered a surprise blow is going to be completely helpless for a certain length of time. And we're talking hand-to-hand! In Cantr we have weapons. A surprise blow with a weapon, especially from a skilled attacker, means death in real life 101 times out of 100.

*Sixteen Cantr characters.
And this same initiative also happens when someone is asleep and the others attack the person during sleep.

Honestly, you keep using reality as a reason, and then Cantreality as a reason the next time. What kind of nonsense is that?

[Cogliostro]

I have no idea what you are saying again, man. Could you clarify what your contentions are?

[Caesar]

I have no idea what you are saying again, man. Could you clarify what your contentions are?

*Sigh.*

Nevermind.

Let's agree to disagree for now.

I want to hear more people's opinions.

[BZR]

If healing foods were nerfed so that all healing was slow but a person wouldn't instantly get weak after suffering damage, that way people wouldn't be completely doomed if they get hit first. I think it would be pretty neat if someone could still fight back at full intensity even if they lost initiative. A person could keep fighting and risk getting killed, or they could hit back once and then try to escape. I think this would make fighting more interesting.

Yeah, I would like to see it implemented.

I'm totaly againt the idea of critical hits. It's currently to easy to kill "good" chars. I'm even considering making a massacre in a big city to point it out. Players who are active and know the mechanics have already too big advantage.

What I would like to see (partially already mentioned)

- fighting skill and toughness copmpletely removed or strongly nerfed. Why sometimes it takes four chars to drag someone and sometimes only one? If somebody deals 60 damage with a battleaxe, isn't it a critical hit? I noticed people spawn new chars until they get a good one. Dragging is also helpful when playing a townleader.

Maybe let's give weak chars other advantages? Like increasing the chance to evade or decrease their weight to 45 kilograms so that they can sneak where bigger chars can't? Or, everyone should start with awkard fighting skill and we should implement training equpiment, so you can make a project "training"?

- automtic healing good idea, but there should be a limit, like chars autoheal no more then 50% of health?

- As some of my chars were involved in battles lately, and usually it was me killing other chars, usually unfairly using game mechanics, I came up with another idea:

- Near death state. When a char's health is going under 0% (or wounds going above 100%, as you prefer) char should go into "near death state". His player can't do anything even enter this char's page. He can't be further atacked, drops everything he owns, and, after one day he simply dies. And we come to the best part - someone might heal him, giving him a great amount of healing foods, and / or maybe even making a project "reviving". Why do I suggest it? Because I hate when players lost they chars in one minute, usually at nights, in this "slow paced game"

[SekoETC]

It would be a good idea if muscular characters were heavier than weak ones, but people should also be able to fatten themselves up to make each other harder to drag. It makes sense that if a person is weak, they'll be easier to drag, so I don't think it's unbalanced that some people can be dragged singlehandedly while sometimes it takes four people, but strength and battle skill should be a result of training, not something that is given as a gift in spawning. Some characters could have a faster rate of learning certain skills, but it would be better if everyone started out equally weak.

I would rather see knockout than a near-death state, since if someone's damage goes over 100% then they are dead, case is closed, Cantr shouldn't have resurrection. It would be handy if in some cases people could get mortal wounds that don't kill instantly, because then the player would have time to rp the death and maybe leave a message to loved ones or curse his killers, but if someone is in such a state then they should be beyond help. As for knockout, if it was possible to get stuff from people that way, it might reduce the amount of violence aiming to kill because it would become possible to get stuff from a person without killing them.

[Piscator]

I'm against critical hits because we already have them. Shields are not 100% effective so you occasionally do much more damage than expected.

I also fail to see how further increasing a char's damage potential would solve anything. The initially mentioned pirate hunters would only be able to kill the pirate a little quicker, maybe even depriving him of his chance to retaliate at all.
Introducing insta-death to give an outnumbered, hypothetical pirate his chance to get cheap and quick revenge doesn't compensate for the instances where a townsperson might be eradicated in a blink of an eye by just that pirate.

[Dudel]

YOU KNOW....


...if you interject RP in the middle of "all the combat" there IS NOT a problem with said combat or waiting for episodic players to "return".

When I've a character who intends to kill, and I like to limit that and avoid the killing blow OOC if I can, there is NO "KILL'EM ALL NOW DON'T WAIT GRR!"

There is a pause.

Adding healing food would discourage my "pause" because the more time I wait the more he gets healed.

"But he signs in and eats anyway!"

BUT HE/SHE RPs BACK and we've some fun!

If he DOESN'T RP and only swings etc... OUT GOES MY RP and my pausing.

PLAYER CHOICE is the problem with "combat" and it is NOTHING that could be fixed with a game mechanic.

Edit: Not to mention that auto-death is just poor shmity idea all around. Some random guy gets his hands on an axe randmly and then swings at everyone in town, killing AT LEAST ONE!? O.O

FUCK THAT!

Let's not encourage yugo and rigel anymore, okay?

[Caesar]

Another thing about the auto-healing.


A character trying to get itself killed could just get force-fed healing foods.