Game Rules: OOC log snapshots / RP use

[Surly]

Parts of the interface are only visible to the player, not the character. The formatting of events is a part of the interface. It would be just as wrong as talking about clicking buttons. Also people should be encouraged to come up with in-worldly style explanations for project/sailing/traveling ticks etc. so that they don't have to mention the word tick. The characters should sense that time flows instead of advancing in ticks.

But time does advance in ticks. I'd think it would be a CRB to suggest otherwise. The game is how it is, and it's the same for everyone.

I also fail to see where the interface comes into it. People can sense time, just like they (vaguely) sense someones age or their skill level after a few moments of work. You cannot try to hold chars to some abstract sense of how you think they should act: if you're going to tell me that I should RP the fact that my lifelong smith suddenly became awkward at refining and making weapons, then people should also be required to RP a log where someone claims to know the time everything was said.

[Cogliostro]

How to refer to timeticks/projects IC is a different issue, can we not get mixed up and rejected again because of that?

So far no one has brought up any reason why it shouldn't be mentioned in the rules that pasting/using event logs in RP situations is discouraged.

Often, the logs are very annoyingly used as proofs. There is no IC way for a character against whom this is done to deal with it IC. (You say: "it is doctored" Other player may not say anything, but here is what many will think to themselves: "hmm.. they wouldn't go to such trouble, look at all the numbers etc., it's probably the actual log.")

90% of the time they will be right - it is the actual undoctored log. But what we're saying with this suggestion is that there shouldn't be any such thing in the game as perfect undeniable records of what happened, just magically available. Once this happens to one of your characters you do currently have the option of entering an annoying back-and-forth "OOC:" message shootout with the other players involved, educating them how silly it is to trust that log. It's exactly to avoid this unnecessary shootout and many conflicting opinions, that the rule update is being requested.

With it in the rules, the talk with log-abusers is short. It's in the rules, you shouldn't do it, so put the proof-log away. It really has no place in the RP situation.

[Caesar]

I simply refuse to RP by it.
If someone drops it I ignore it.
Where is your proof?

And can you really believe that every character has a memory capable of remembering the exact time every single thing happened?

And why would they call themselves 'you'? They saw it, not someone else.


It is just a lack of being able to RP well or being very lazy.

[*Wiro]

But time does advance in ticks.

*stands still, waiting for the travel tick to occur so he can step forward one more step*

[Caesar]

But time does advance in ticks.

*stands still, waiting for the travel tick to occur so he can step forward one more step*

*Scared he looks about, sweating.* "My legs, my legs! They.. They are frozen in place! I can't move, help me!" *From terror he bursts out in tears as he tries to move from his place.*

[Surly]

How to refer to timeticks/projects IC is a different issue, can we not get mixed up and rejected again because of that?

So far no one has brought up any reason why it shouldn't be mentioned in the rules that pasting/using event logs in RP situations is discouraged.

I don't think there is a convincing argument for it to be mentioned. Of course it is irritating, but it's like people using titles in their names: ultimately everyone else will ignore it. It is, quite simply, no where near a big enough issue to add to rules that most people likely don't read anyway.

But time does advance in ticks.

*stands still, waiting for the travel tick to occur so he can step forward one more step*

We can boil eggs without water. Operate the combustion engine without fuel. Eat large amounts of raw potatoes without illness.

It is just one of those things.

[*Wiro]

But time does advance in ticks.

*stands still, waiting for the travel tick to occur so he can step forward one more step*

We can boil eggs without water. Operate the combustion engine without fuel. Eat large amounts of raw potatoes without illness.

It is just one of those things.

I honestly don't get your point. Those are IC things. Travelling is travelling, and if we are allowed to roleplay things according to the OOC information we see (copying/pasting event logs, mentioning ticks), then using the same logic we are allowed to do *suddenly teleports a long distance further* because the travelling goes further only at the tick.

[SekoETC]

The thing is people should assume things are realistic and ignore the unrealistic parts. Assume that weights are in line, assume that water is used for cooking but it's maybe different kind of water than what other projects need, assume that people walking are constantly making progress even though it's only calculated in ticks.

[*Wiro]

The thing is people should assume things are realistic and ignore the unrealistic parts. Assume that weights are in line, assume that water is used for cooking but it's maybe different kind of water than what other projects need, assume that people walking are constantly making progress even though it's only calculated in ticks.

Exactly.

So also assume that people don't know the exact words PLUS actions someone spoke/did four days ago during that looooong speech, and then write it down in the exact same way someone on the other side of the world would do as well.

[Caesar]

Exactly.

So also assume that people don't know the exact words PLUS actions someone spoke/did four days ago during that looooong speech, and then write it down in the exact same way someone on the other side of the world would do as well.

Great way to put it.
Or do we have to assume that they wrote that a bit normal as well?

[joo]

That fact that in-game changes advance in low-resolution ticks is just a programming technique to reduce the server load. In a real-time FPS, the positions of characters are updated every frame, so it occurs too frequently to be noticed, however one doesn't imagine moving forward by a certain distance every 33 milliseconds and remaining still for the rest of the time. The reality that is represented by the system does not have any ticks, and thus any roleplaying within that reality shouldn't interact with or mention the ticks.

The same applies to event logs, which are just an interface to the player. Admittedly NPCs in single player games might sometimes mention visual elements as part of a tutorial level or something, but that's essentially part of the interface as well, and they're not completely in character.

[Caesar]

That fact that in-game changes advance in low-resolution ticks is just a programming technique to reduce the server load. In a real-time FPS, the positions of characters are updated every frame, so it occurs too frequently to be noticed, however one doesn't imagine moving forward by a certain distance every 33 milliseconds and remaining still for the rest of the time. The reality that is represented by the system does not have any ticks, and thus any roleplaying within that reality shouldn't interact with or mention the ticks.

The same applies to event logs, which are just an interface to the player. Admittedly NPCs in single player games might sometimes mention visual elements as part of a tutorial level or something, but that's essentially part of the interface as well, and they're not completely in character.

Joo, I just got more (the first bit of?) respect for you.

[SekoETC]

Here's an idea, if someone posts a copy-pasted log, instead of ignoring it tell them that it's too long and contains too many irrelevant things, and is written in an awkward manner, then give it back and tell them to only write down the relevant parts. It takes time but if it's important then people should go through that trouble.

[Caesar]

Here's an idea, if someone posts a copy-pasted log, instead of ignoring it tell them that it's too long and contains too many irrelevant things, and is written in an awkward manner, then give it back and tell them to only write down the relevant parts. It takes time but if it's important then people should go through that trouble.

That sounds like a nice way to handle it IC, Seko.
Although I still do think it should be outlawed.

[Cogliostro]

It'd be nice if there was an IC way to handle it, but in most situations there isn't. Consider: many times it's a log used against your character while you are in prison somewhere. You don't even get any say in it.

The majority of players are not aware that there's anything "wrong" with pasting event logs as proofs etc., and go along with it.

This is why I feel the rules need to be updated to reflect that it is not OK. At least in this case we can always point to the rule when disputes about it arise in the game and that way cut down on OOC: arguments about whether it's ok or not.

For sure, enforcing it would be a PD nightmare, so they won't. That's fine. Just have it in the rules that it's frowned upon and discouraged.

For example, here's how I'd formulate it:
" Please note that copy/pasted events from your character page should not be used in roleplaying situations. Your character does not automatically have a perfect timestamped record of everything that happened, so using such copy/pasted events in game situations as "proofs" or otherwise is frowned upon by many players."

There we are. With the requisite allusion "...by players...", that should make PD happy. I mean in that it's pretty clear they are not the ones called to enforce it. Only thing I think PD should do is send out a message to all players letting them know about the gist of the updated rule, should it be accepted.