Turn 2310 - Game over?

[Tiamo]

The Cantr interface is inefficient, being the result of countless additions, changes and updates. It was designed as a much simpler game.

About adding resources to projects: this is necessary as some projects need (way) more resources than one character can carry. So you will have to start those projects and do some 'refills' before you are able to work on it. Also you would want several characters to be able to contribute resources to the same project.
The choice of how to add the resources is obsolete, and should be removed, i think.

In general the interface should support one-step activity input using drop down menus and built-in forms (using scripts, java applets are an overkill on this) instead of the dialogue style it now uses, which needs multiple pages for a simple activity.

Also, i would like to see the game info be distributed over the various pages more efficiently, so less info pages are necessary (and jumping to and fro is avoided).

All i have to do is dream...

[Dudel]

About adding resources to projects: this is necessary as some projects need (way) more resources than one character can carry. So you will have to start those projects and do some 'refills' before you are able to work on it. Also you would want several characters to be able to contribute resources to the same project.
The choice of how to add the resources is obsolete, and should be removed, i think.

<b>Msg:</b> <i>"You do not have the nessecary recorces/tools to complete this project. Would you like to continue anyway?"</i>

Check-Yes
Check-No


That idea better? Cause that makes me happy and you happy. (Not sarcasim)

[SekoETC]

The choice of how to add the resources is obsolete, and should be removed, i think.

What do you mean? Removing that "don't add resources / put in all I have / only put in if I have everything" choice? No way, that's one of the best simple improvements the game has ever had. If a project requires several resources then it saves a lot of time and page loads if all of them can be added at once, and even if you weren't able to carry all of them at once, even if you were able to add two out of three and then later add the missing resource, that would still be saving time. While some people might prefer to start a project without adding the resources even if they had them. The only problem with the choice is that some people don't understand the wording.

[wietse]

By the sudden arrival of a lot of characters, I noticed Tiamo put a link to the game generations on this forum.
It's funny to read your comments on it in relation to cantr and also fun to see a couple of other people are also programming their own game similar to cantr.

To clarify a few things:

I started programming generations after playing I quit playing cantr. I've played cantr for about two years. I think cantr has some great game concepts in it, the best parts being the social interaction, the society building aspect and the relaxing game pace. I wanted to copy these things will (in my eyes) changing/improving other things. Most importantly, the idea of familiy's and playing your own children. This means there is no captial rule thing (one of the reason I quit cantr). Do what you like in the game. The other thing I wanted to introduce is a grid based map with no fixed location. The idea is that in generations you can build your house on a good spot, and if it's a good enough spot other people will do the same and you get a kind of village. This grid took the form of a small map, which I use for selecting resources, people and other stuff. I really like the map, other then that the game is only data and text so far, like cantr.

I started working on the game with absolutely no programming experience. (which explains partly the crappy interface/programming and why it's not programmed in java) Right now I am happy the game works in a way and I finally managed to get it online. I hope to improve it slowly while it's online. (slowly, because I don't have that much time)

As to comment on a reaction on another game that has adventuring (monsters, etc) in it. There won't be stuff like that or things a gamemaster makes up in generations. Another great idea from cantr is that characters build the entire society, including written records, laws, social structure, money, etc. This idea is one of the basics of generations also, but of course you will have to invent writing first and create some things to write on first )

Anyway, if you want to try the game go ahead, but understand I am still working on it. Also it might just be the server will explode with more then 20 players. P

[*Wiro]

I like the Capital Rule. Without it I DEFINITELY wouldn't have had as much fun with Cantr than with. I also would have trouble roleplaying certain roles.

[Missy]

The choice of how to add the resources is obsolete, and should be removed, i think.

What do you mean? Removing that "don't add resources / put in all I have / only put in if I have everything" choice? No way, that's one of the best simple improvements the game has ever had. If a project requires several resources then it saves a lot of time and page loads if all of them can be added at once, and even if you weren't able to carry all of them at once, even if you were able to add two out of three and then later add the missing resource, that would still be saving time. While some people might prefer to start a project without adding the resources even if they had them. The only problem with the choice is that some people don't understand the wording.

I don't use it. Simply because I don't remember its there. I'm just used to clicking and going as fast as I can so I don't waste minutes and I can't seem to force myself to remember that that funtion is there.

[DylPickle]

I use it. It winded up saving huge amounts of time for my industry characters. It's a great thing to get into your routine.

Then again, I usually use regular project sizes, and have all the required input amounts listed on paper on my desk.

[Wveth]

So, if your older chars hold onto leadership positions in game, you want to blame things like fuel and tool rot for the fact that you won't be bothered to engage new players? :s

It should not need to be said that older players, and especially staff, have a responsibility in game for the experience of new players

I did say players, right? Not characters?

So, if your older chars hold onto leadership positions in game, you want to blame things like fuel and tool rot for the fact that you won't be bothered to engage new players?

Why does all of that rely on me? I'm but one person. You've lost several people who might have been enthusiastic enough about the game and lost them over changes, who would have been glad to do exactly that. That's an insane statement to make.

First of all, explaining to a player how to play the game is not something that is done IC'ly. Of course, having a character show a newspawn the ropes IC'ly is an entirely different thing. Of course, I don't fail to help a struggling new player out in whisper if they are appearing not to get something. I have found some nifty ways to hint at things too, without even having to fall OOC over the years. I do what I have to do while playing the game, no matter how annoying and tiresome it may be. Taking the time can end up to my benefit over-all and for the games. I know that and am aware of it.



On a further note, Do you take the personal time to sit with someone over yahoo messanger and explain? "Well, the log-in button does this. You have to click on the smiley to get to your character. Well the people page shows you all the people in your town. If you click on yourself you'll see these bars. Blah blah blha. It's on the far left hand of the screen....See it? Well you'll have to use the talk button and introduce yourself. Figure out where you are so you can name the location you're in. You name the location by......Oh and you name a person by.........And there's roads under the location button...You'll have to ask someone where they lead to unless there's a note on the ground. OH--did I mention the ground usually means objects? It's the objects page. The icon to look at the objects page is up beside the icon for activity and peoople.... " Sorry Sanchez, but the amount of time it takes to personally explain every little detail (Which I used to do for people who I personally introduced to the game,) is just not something I can do anymore. It was tiresome then? And even more so-now. I am under no obligation to do that in the first place, however I can tell you that doing that? RATHER than ~AHEM~ referring them to some poorly written game description or the Wiki, and at least in my case has resulted in long-term players and a flock of excellent characters to boot.

Don't preach to me about

Teach them before you whine about the quality of the player base. That kind of snobbery is the greater disincentive, imo.

Im not one of the players who sits here on the forum complaining about "Noobs" No. I'm not one of the players who sits here complaining about spelling mistakes and errors. Im not one of those annoying bastards who will go IC like this:

Char1: I sea you.
Char2: How do you sea something?

Who the eff cares how it's spelled. Think about how it sounds. Your chars aren't seeing the writing, they're hearing it for godssakes.


I'm not one of the people who sat around bitching at pie. And you see, I'm glad I wasn't. While I'm sure some of you think you were doing favors, some of you were down-right nasty. Talking about banning him from the forum simply because his spelling mistakes bothered you. Gee, that's a real good way to gain clients or players. (Think of all the people who you've discouraged from actively seeking roles on the forum to comment because they know their spelling isn't the greatest and may have turned out to be rather swell people or cantr-ers? ) Really. I mean, when a fat dude walks in to McDonalds, you don't turn him away. You certainly don't start calling him fat either. And if he says he wants twelve chicken nugget happy meals, you give them to him. Course if you called him fat and there happened to be another fat dude right behind him? What do you think is going to happen?


No I'm not one of those people, KNOWING that there's potential in even the most annoying of people to become a Cantr'er.


Older players? What are older players?



My brother in-law and his future wife are really into Runescape or whatever. They keep trying to get me to play it (but I've never played another game since I've started playing cantr except nationstates and I just don't want to be bothered,), and I just know that I could get his future wife to play Cantr and she'd love it. IF I could keep her attention while explaining everything. If I could get her past all the tedium that's required to even play anymore. For some reason I don't believe she'd feel it was worth it. So I haven't really bothered yet.....I'm sorry, but Cantr was never easy back in the day to just pick up and start playing. My husband had to explain it to me. I had to explain it in DETAIL to every person I ever introduced. I somehow doubt that the wiki has changed that. Knowing still of all the newspawns who say "Sure I'll help you drag....Um, *Whisper* How do you drag someone?"I know for certain that it hasn't become easier to explain either. I know that, because I myself have troubles keeping up with what's new and how to do things anymore. If it's hard for me? And it loses MY interest and attention? Then it's BOUND to be hard for new people.


Does that make sense now?

How many people have spawned in a populated place and been
ignored?

I will tell you that it's not easy being everywhere and doing everything that a character has to do, and NEVER ever missing someone. It's damn hard in big towns like Doryiskom and Siom. Sometimes people jump to the conclusion that characters are ignoring their characters when actually, there's just absolutely SOOOO much going on in that place, it slips the one person who gives a damn about that kind of thing? Yeah, it slips passed and not because that character wants it to.

You do know that there's a whisper button for a reason, right? So people can whisper. Characters to be more precise. I know that it's something that has to be solved IC'ly. I've had a char who had a problemw ith whispering in one town, ended up whispering a bit more than she'd have liked herself without realizing and got called a hypocrite for it. I have been to towns where all I see is pages and pages of people whispering with no out-loud speech for turns and turns, yet there's someone talking to someone each minute. I've got a char who rarely says a word, but when it does 9 times out of 10 it's in a whisper to the only person it ever talks to. I've also come to realize that sometimes you whisper a ton and don't even realize you're doing it. Have I had a character go to a town and feel ignroed? Yes. And it does something about it. Says something about it. Leaves. Finds a solution. Screams until it's heard. Or is complacent the way it is.

Why do you pick out "populated place" as an example even? The one small town I was in. Maybe 5-6 characters....This one characters only interest was talking to her boyfriend. The boyfriend says "We can't seem to get people to stay here. Everyone always wants to leave." He's the leader of the town by the way. So they hand out free bone knife and a bikini or whatever trying to entice people to stay. My own char introduces itself, and the girlfriend char doesn't bother introducing herself. But she's clearly awake several times a day. The boyfriend later dies and the girl friend becomes the leader. She's crying and wants sympathy or for people to be respectably sorrowful..........Gee, can you blame people for not wanting to be there? lol Like, "Oh. Now you want to know our name so we can pat your back and tell you it'll be alright. Now we're good enough for you to care about."


Being ignored can happen anywhere, big or small. My char said to hell with that place. Went on for better things elsewhere, of course after stating it's opinon about "No wonder noone stays here."

But I also imagine there's reason why those chars are like that. Just as I know there's a reason why mine is the way it is. What does that have to do with people being snotty? People are allowed to be snotty IC.

*golf clap*

[Piscator]

Based on the slope of the decline in English speaking characters, assuming that the rate of loss does not change, there will be no more English speaking characters by turn 2310. That is in 16 months, not a long time. If ever there was a case for the administration to take marketing very seriously, this is it.

That shows again that statistics is the art of predicting the future under the assumption that everything stays as it is.

[El_Skwidd]

http://www.xkcd.com/605/

For related lulz.

[SekoETC]

Why do people have to go resurrecting a topic from last year?

[Caesar]

Why do people have to go resurrecting a topic from last year?

Neither do I understand this, although I would do it because I am an Evil Necromancer.

[Wveth]

If y'all are referring to me, then the answer is simple: I had something to say.

[Slowness_Incarnate]

The title of this thread now reminds me of all of the Y2K scares.