How do you know what resources you need?

[rklenseth]

The Aztecs didn't have horses though and that is one of the main reasons why the Aztecs lost to the Spanish and not gunpowder but gunpowder was still a decisive factor to the Spanish victory. But gunpowder and horses would have probably given the Aztecs a chance but they would have killed themselves off eventually since they liked to sacrifice each other to their sun god.

But I think this topic is interesting and would agree that characters should discover stuff instead of just noticing it. Maybe characters would know somethings but everything like they do now. And something that I have suggested in the past make it so that a character doesn't know what resources are in the ground, except those that are the obvious (trees, stone, wheat), and they have to search for it. When they found something then that characters knows that it exists and then he can 'tell' other characters that that stuff is there and then they would know but would still have to look for a source of that resource when they get to that area. Also, you would have to pull up some plants to find out if there are potatoes or carrots and stuff. And that there should be a difference between wild plants and cultivated plants.

But like the idea of having someone find out to make stuff and then be able to teach someone how to make it. It would call a need for apprenticeships like there was back in Ancient times. Another trade would be added to Cantr.

Oh yeah, don't call American Indians Native Americans. Believe me, they hate that for some reason. They want to be called American Indians. Well, at least the ones I have meant so far in my life. It might differ from different societies.

[Solfius]

ok, noted. Sorry to any American Indians I wound up.

Another factor in the conquistadors victory was that the Aztec leader though Cortez was a god, but I was just using it as a rough example of how something like that can change history type of thing.

A more extreme example would be what if the spaniards didn't have such advanced tech at the time, and th Aztecs invaded them? All becasue no one found out how to build things

[Meh]

The Aztecs didn't have horses though and that is one of the main reasons why the Aztecs lost to the Spanish.

There is a lot of little deatils about that era that favored the invaders.
I would assert that the largest was the unintentional bringing of smallpox which caused death of epidemic porportions.

The zulus with a similar tech level centries later put up a good fight against gunpowder. The difference was no epidemic.

Without the epidemic there would have been more natives to repel invaders over the years and more natives adpating to the new technolgies which was exampled in other areas of the continent for centuries afterward.

In fact the european conquests owe their root to diseases. A quest for technology is common n all cultures. But in europe after the plagues the wealthy desired the same amount of resources produced with the less population they had. They invested heavily in technogly build outs, learning tech from abroad, and developing new tech. That combined with disunity and competion made it the technlogical juggernaut of the last millinia.

[rklenseth]

Yes, disease played the most major role in defeating the American Indians or Native Americans or whatever you call them. But the Aztecs had it against them in that they thought the Spanish were gods (everything about the Spanish fit the discription of their prophecy) and allowed them into their home. From there the Spanish were able to learn everything about the Aztecs including their weakness. The Aztecs actually came up with a plan to kill the Spanish when they learned that they weren't gods but a spy that the Spanish planted in the Aztec Government warned them of the attack and they were able to get away. Then the Spanish were able to make allies of the Aztec's enemies and with the their superior technology and the advantage of horses (horses did not exist in South, Central, or North America until the Spanish brought them over; many of the wold horses that can be found in the Great Plains of the USA are the decendants of the horses that ran away during the Spanish conquest of the Aztecs). Also, the Spanish wore armor and many of the weapons that the Aztecs had could not penetrate the Spanish armor. So you see the Spanish has advantage ok knowledge, mounted warfare, guns (muskets and cannons), and armor. I wasn't until later that disease kicked in and that was after the Spanish and other European countries pretty much had control of the native populations through warfare. Actually, the death of the natives in the Americas by disease, which was the main source of labor for the Europeans in the Americas, led to the African Slave Trade to the Americas. This eventually led to the African Slave Trade to North America when it was found that cotton and other cash crops grew very well in the Southern colonies of the British (Virginia, Carolinas) and Spanish northern colonies (Florida, Georgia (I believe the Spanish had a different name for this colony but the British took this from them)).

[Meh]

And I agree with what you say.
The tecnologal difference and good old fashion trickery led to ealry sucesscuess like the Krif expansion towords Seatown. But those sucesses while great would have been as temporary as the Krif expansion. The population reduction led to a collapse of trade and communication. The invaders would have had a much harder time maintaining control over a large population with a maintained infrastructure even if they dominated it early.

But if newpsawns where reduced and half the existing chracters of the conquered areas would have dropped dead within a Cantr year the Krifian expansion there may have seen such a reversal. There was some other OOC stuff going on too but... The non-limitation of newspawns has a large influcence on expansion. The achivement of Lad {sorry for the abbr.} is that it is able to maintain some measure of control over newpsawn Narons.

On the other hand since newspawns only absorb the local culture volentarily instead of being raised in it, this limits locational indenty of the indivduals which leads to less rebellion.

[Wim van de Griendt]

I still have troubels seeing cantr work if people should learn everything that they can make. And that we should programm for al these things. I think this is just impossible at the momemt, with our bandwith, the size of the programm, the size of our programming and resources staff, etc. And I think you will loose all interest (certainly for new players) if you are not able to build things/tools/etc. Then this game is so hard to start with, we will be out of players in a year.
But that are my thoughts.

[Solfius]

well perhaps you only have to dicscover what you need to make the object, and how to. Or maybe eve only how to make it, so you can still see the "ideas" you have for tools, even if you haven't made them yet, or know how to make them. And if you make a new tool, perhaps when you know how to make a new tool if opens up other ideas which that idea you figured out is needed for. Ie. a hammer is needed for a cottage, so you think up an idea for a cotage after learning how ot make a hammer

[Oasis]

I have to agree with Wim and Swymer. I think anyone who doesn't already know the game would be put to a tremendous disadvantage, and everything would become much more complicated and frustrating.
I agree that a baby should have to learn things progressively, but by the time they're twenty, they should know what we know now.

There is so little information given now, lots of my char's (well even me lol) don't know much about making steel, what a lot of the tools are for, what added things you can do with certain items like furniture, or cooking equipment. Veterans, don't forget, there is a lot already built in that requires discovery.

[Nick]

I wouldnt be surprised if resource names became dynamic, and I would support any part of the game being changed to being dynamic. Its just so much more interesting and realistic. Item names, resource names, place names, people names, animal names... they should all be dynamic. I know when I was born I didnt know what a reamer was, or what it was made of. (still dont, lol... what the hell is a reamer?)

[Wim van de Griendt]

It is a sort of hand drill, to make holes (also used by a dentist says my translating programm Babylon).