Rape...

[Idriveayugo]

The line is in different places for different people. The important thing is finding where the line goes and not crossing it, but this is difficult when people are discouraged from using OOC (and I bet it takes some courage to tell a person who locked up your character that they're creeping you out). That's why I still think there should be a built-in system that allows people to flag their characters as sensitive or hardcore, so that others will know what level of explicit content the player is okay with.

SekoETC RATED X

[Piscator]

You're equating the position she holds with her identity. No one is assaulting *her* on any grounds whatsoever, but the *position* she explained *is*, structurally speaking, dangerous to hold, harmful. In much the same way, I don't mind an individual who is a socialist, but I do despise socialism. It's fallacious to present the situation as if the original poster has been subjected to any form of personal offense or injury.

Well, do you really think one's identity and one's opinions are seperable that easily? Don't you think, saying "I've nothing against you, but your position is complete and utter bullshit" is at least a bit offensive? (I'm talking about real life, not some abstract, philosophical para-world.)

Anyway, I don't think either that RPing rape should be prohibited, but it's simply a question of good manners not to force it on people who are not comfortable with it. Even if you have the right to do it, it's quite messed up to discomfort other people just to prove a point.

In other words, I do think you have the right to RP murder, rape and pillaging, but you should also know when to abstain from this right.

[Diego]

The line is in different places for different people. The important thing is finding where the line goes and not crossing it, but this is difficult when people are discouraged from using OOC (and I bet it takes some courage to tell a person who locked up your character that they're creeping you out).

I think the corollary to "everyone has a different line" is "limit your conduct according to your own line, and expect the conduct of others to follow their own lines", not "attempt to guesstimate the line of everyone you encounter and adjust your conduct accordingly". Honestly, if a player isn't breaking roleplaying rules (essentially, if everything they do is perfectly in-character), and I had a profound personal issue with their behavior, I'd ask them once, OOC, to tone it down, and if it's truly unendurable, I'd let the character sleep indefinitely. There *is* a problem with desiring the behavior of others to adjust to your standards (and ergo, to wish to adjust your conduct to your idea of the standards of everyone else).

That's why I still think there should be a built-in system that allows people to flag their characters as sensitive or hardcore, so that others will know what level of explicit content the player is okay with.

Now this is a reasonable solution.

[Diego]

Well, do you really think one's identity and one's opinions are seperable that easily?

They should be, if they're thought out. Not unlike one's identity and one's solution of a math problem are easy to separate. Opinions are conclusions based on judgment of reality. Your judgment can be wrong, can't it? That doesn't make you any better or any worse, as long as you're willing to accept error on your behalf (and it's not very healthy to be unwilling to do so).

Don't you think, saying "I've nothing against you, but your position is complete and utter bullshit" is at least a bit offensive? (I'm talking about real life, not some abstract, philosophical para-world.)

No, I find it inviting. Someone with no bias against me as an individual, yet who has reached an entirely opposite conclusion from the same world. I like to explore their reasoning thoroughly, see how much we have in common, where we depart and why, whether my opinion still makes perfect sense to me or whether good questions have been raised. Maybe others choose their opinions more lightly than that. What is truly counterintuitive is to then take those lighter opinions and define your identity through them.

Anyway, I don't think either that RPing rape should be prohibited, but it's simply a question of good manners not to force it on people who are not comfortable with it. Even if you have the right to do it, it's quite messed up to discomfort other people just to prove a point.

In other words, I do think you have the right to RP murder, rape and pillaging, but you should also know when to abstain from this right.

Agreed. However, while everyone should know, some don't, and there is simply nothing that can (or should) be done about that, other than perhaps suggestions like Seko's.

[BlueNine]

I don't think anything should be prohibited in RP in general, rather the players should act their role as true to the character as possible and only alter the characters behaviour if it is known to be uncomfortable to the other player(s) (if your char with a controlling/rapist personality stops being who they are due to your fears over insulting someone I would consider this a CRB).

Personally I don't see how anyone can be affected by words in a game, fair enough if they bring back bad memories, but that could be said about pirate raids, murders, imprisonments etc. As much as it is good to be immersed in your chars, it is also important to realise that the acts being depicted in the game aren't actually happening, nor are they a reflection of the player (with 15 chars with different personalities we would all have to have multiple personality disorder for that to be true!).

Just try to remember that its just a game and anything that happens is just part of your chars story, whether it is happy or unfortunate

[Dudel]

Some people seem to forget that you do not roleplay to, but roleplay with other players.

This is all a few of you need remember.

That's why I still think there should be a built-in system that allows people to flag their characters as sensitive or hardcore, so that others will know what level of explicit content the player is okay with.

This would help but would also slowly start "grouping" certain people together in a VERY OOC manner.

(if your char with a controlling/rapist personality stops being who they are due to your fears over insulting someone I would consider this a CRB).

I say CRB in that manner! Who's gonna know or report your for NOT being a <insert>?

[Diego]

Kind of beats the point of "Capital" and "Rule", you know?

[*Wiro]

(if your char with a controlling/rapist personality stops being who they are due to your fears over insulting someone I would consider this a CRB).

Just try to remember that its just a game

Games are meant to be fun.

[Piscator]

Yes, and after all, it is just a game.

The Capital Rule is meant to ensure the fun of the players. If someone hurts other players feelings by (ab)using the CR to do anything they want to do in the name of consistent RP, that's a thing that should be remembered. Although it is the highest rule in this game, you should not forget that there are more important rules, conventions and considerations outside of it.

[Caesar]

Well, one of my characters lived in a village, together with some others. One day a french female ran in, and told us she was raped.
(Fully RPed, i played a Dutch character, so alot of gestures were involved.)

It ended up in the guy coming from the same road being mad, i blocked him (RP-ish, he could have just attacked her OOC-ish.) and he shot me instead of her. He took her inside and raped her again.

Now, he roleplayed it very well and... his behaviour was very psychotic so it seemed to fit too. I have no problem with IC-Rape, although it made both me and my character mad. (With consequences.)

My opinion: If you do not want it, simply try to RP your way out of it. Doesn't it work? Then tell the person OOC if you are really not comfortable with it, but it remains some sort of 'right' for that CHARACTER to be able to do as fits his/her personality,

C.

[SekoETC]

Rp'ing might make the other player assume you are okay with it even though your character is not, so maybe the best way would be to express your OOC opinion as early as possible but still try to keep playing as far as you feel comfortable with. Like "if your character really has to do this, don't go into explicit details since I don't want to read them".

And threatening situations can be damn scary to the victim's player, especially if it's a player with a wild imagination like me, who thinks up all the things that might happen even if they really didn't. Then you might for example read the I AM thread or check who's generally online when the capturer is active, analyze people's spelling and make an assumption that someone is the player when they really are not. Then you might start reading signs about how they are a dark twisted person. Such an interpretation could be made of several people, myself included. Everyone puts a piece of themselves into a character and in the question of a sadistic character, people might start wondering which parts are aspects of the player.

[*Wiro]

Well, one of my characters lived in a village, together with some others. One day a french female ran in, and told us she was raped.
(Fully RPed, i played a Dutch character, so alot of gestures were involved.)

It ended up in the guy coming from the same road being mad, i blocked him (RP-ish, he could have just attacked her OOC-ish.) and he shot me instead of her. He took her inside and raped her again.

The player does lots of godmodding. Kinda annoying. Not to mention a bunch of his characters are like that, very pushy when it's about sex. His roleplay can be really nice, if he doesn't do the godmodding and isn't too pushy on that subject.

If I ended up having a character getting raped again (I've had one so far, a while back) it'd depend on my mood wether I'd roleplay it or not, but I wouldn't tell them OOC to stop. More like "Please don't go into the details." and have it roleplayed like "*pushes him/her against the wall and forcefully makes love to her*" instead of having it in lots of details. This depends on the player, too, as I don't want to roleplay this with players who make me, as a player, feel uncomfortable.

About the "putting parts of self in characters" thing, I think it might not have to be exactly a part of the person playing the character, but more of desires the player might have, but would never actually act on in real life. It was awesome playing an enslaving torturer, but I would never want to do such a thing in real life, and I cringe whenever I read about such things having happened in real life.

I would drop all RP if a player would refuse to RP the rape his character is performing on my character and contact PD right away if I clearly told the player that I did not want it to be too detailed. The only problem with that is that after having raped your character, the rapist might let your character go, but if because of the PD he can't do so anymore, your character might end up being locked up forever.

[SekoETC]

I think it would be poor play to say "my character can't get raped because I don't want it to happen". Valid arguments would be "my character can't get raped because my character doesn't have a vagina (or an anus)" or "my character can't get raped because I know your character is a worse fighter than mine and my character is also much stronger than average".

Cantrians don't necessarily need genitalia because they don't mate to create offspring, but at least I think that Cantrians should have the same parts that humans do in real life since they are humans. Also one could argue that Cantrians don't have an anus since there are no signs of human feces in the game. If someone wants to rp their characters not having genitalia, I respect their decision (but that doesn't rule out the possibility of oral rape, since surely Cantrians have a mouth if they can speak and eat).

As for the strength and fighting skill argument, of course people could lie about their strength but fighting skill is visible when a successful attack occurs. If the victim is a better fighter than the attacker, they should be able to win unless the victim is particularly weak or wounded. People could also agree to using the combat system as a random number generator, like getting past the shield would mean a stunning blow and missing would mean a fumble, which could lead to for example dropping a weapon.

[El_Skwidd]

If I ended up having a character getting raped again (I've had one so far, a while back) it'd depend on my mood wether I'd roleplay it or not, but I wouldn't tell them OOC to stop. More like "Please don't go into the details." and have it roleplayed like "*pushes him/her against the wall and forcefully makes love to her*" instead of having it in lots of details. This depends on the player, too, as I don't want to roleplay this with players who make me, as a player, feel uncomfortable.
...
I would drop all RP if a player would refuse to RP the rape his character is performing on my character and contact PD right away if I clearly told the player that I did not want it to be too detailed. The only problem with that is that after having raped your character, the rapist might let your character go, but if because of the PD he can't do so anymore, your character might end up being locked up forever.

(as an aside, rape and making love are not the same)

This is the ideal solution. What is so hard about that? Nobody's saying you can't play rapists. Nobody's saying you need to change your opinions on rape or your ideas about the *real* world for the sake of another person. All that's being asked is that we as players take a little consideration for sensitive players and omit a portion of our characters temporarily for the purposes of a game. If you want to judge people as major pitfalls of society because they ask for that small consideration, you're entitled to that opinion. I'm also entitled to the opinion that you're over-analyzing the situation. The world is a harsh place, and I realize that - I'm not some naive "kid", as someone said, who has never opened a philosophy book in his life. I realize that in real life we shouldn't be expected to take great lengths for other people. Like it or not, that's the way it is. BUT: If you can't make that consideration for another person in the realm of this game, you're guilty of making a big deal out of something that doesn't matter that much in the same way as someone said malinseh was.

Short version: Wiro is right.

[*Wiro]

Forcefully making love to someone sounds like rape to me, though, no?